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    I feel that our nation was formed by some very brilliant people. These people had suffered in jobs where they were nothing more than slave labor, working for the Gentry. Their plan was to form a nation with equal opportunity for all, and religious freedom. In England, where many of them were from, Catholic was the main faith, and if you were not Catholic there were repercussion on your standing in society. So these people, some Christian, some other faiths, and some without any faith at all, attempted to form a government that would be just and fair for all. The idea of FAIR was an American concept and actually taught by parents for decades. You never got a larger share of a drink or desert as a child in our parents attempt to be fair, the American way.

    Our forefathers also had large enough brains to foresee some of the future and knowing that our people needed to be educated, they needed to be the best and the brightest in the world if we were to be a great nation and number one in the world. They gave us free education knowing that the brightest mind is not always born in the mansion, but could be living in a ditch. They knew that education would drive the future, and providing it for free gave everyone a good chance in helping build a great nation.

    I find the interesting part of all of this is that those who formed our government and moved it forward to help all Americans were mostly upper class people. However as time went along many poor children grew into great statesmen. All of these people knew the importance of including everyone in the RICHES of our nation in order to avoid public revolt, to build a strong nation, and to be a safe nation.

    We as a nation have had our trials and tribulations. The Wild West bought some sorts of Free birds that were lawless, but we turned it around with law and order and conquered the west! The civil war was another era that we grew thru as a nation realizing finally that having slaves simply does not give equal rights. At one point our country said “enough” with the sale of junk that did not work and gave us rights as consumers and punitive damages to those who would sell us snake oil. I prefer to know I am really paying for a toaster that works instead of getting it home and finding out it does not and then not having any recourse against the seller, how about you?

    As for the constitution being a living document I have no doubt that it is and was from the very beginning. The first amendment was introduced in 1789 and accept in 1791 and it is a part of the bill of rights for well, let me just post it: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. I like the 2nd amendment too, the right to bear arms, again I think our forefathers knew that we may need to draw them against an enemy and that enemy could be right here in our own nation. So, should we toss out the bill of rights then as it is not part of the constitution during its making? Even the church has changed its interruptions of the bible over time to meet society’s needs, and we expect government not to?

    Today, again we are facing a huge threat to our nation. Is it the Middle East, or China or Russia? Well, yes partly, but more so ourselves. We are so ingrained in party-line government that does not work neither party is represents the best interests of the American people any longer that all we do is bicker. We listen to people who rant against our neighbors, our family, and the people we work with or sit next to in church as if they are the ENEMY…. And it is all being done for MONEY. We are again preparing for a civil war or class war this time in our nation against each other, maybe against right and left? I seriously would be afraid to support the left in some of the southern states I have lived in, but back in the 50-60’s they were democratic states. They moved to the right because of the civil rights law passed to protect people of another race??? Geesh… How patriotic? Can we not all work together to build what our ancestors wanted?

    Henry Ford in the beginning was a horrible employer. He treated his people almost like slaves. In fact in the Wild West Rockefeller was in mining and the Pinkertons actually came out to protect his interest against any labor movement. The shot down a whole tent camp full of men, women and children from the mine in the night and got away with it. Labor laws do protect us, and I would say that Henry Ford actually found out that working with labor by increasing their wages and letting them have enough to buy his products increased his profit margins. Today, people could learn from that lesson and from history in general.

    Comment


      Originally posted by backtoschool View Post
      I think I have been included in your ignore list, but I will put this comment here for the rest of those reading this thread.

      Conservatives change their beliefs to fit their needs just as much as liberals do. There is many a conservative that got elected on lowering spending, only to increase the deficit greatly by funding tax cuts and perks for the rich, and wars for the military-industrial complex.

      I think it is more the tone of your posts, than the content that is so annoying OF. You seem to always be insulting anyone who does not agree with you. This is a debate, and your view is not the only truth. You make a lot of good points, but they get lost in your condescending, judgmental tone.

      The problem with always citing the Constitution, is that the Constitution can be interpreted in various ways. There is no certainty that your interpretation of the Constitution totally meshes with the intent the original writers of the document had hundreds of years ago.

      I have stood up for you on this forum on numerous occasions, and I still believe you are a valuable member of this forum. But there are views other than yours that are legitimate views and those views deserve to be heard without insults and contempt in my opinion.


      Very well written.

      I do apologize if my tone offends others at times. We are all very passionate about certain subjects and should respect others.
      Stopped Payings CC's: 8/14/2009 | Retained Attorney: 9/23/2009 | Filed CH 7: 12/7/2009 | 341 Meeting: 1/21/2010 - Complete | Discharged: 4/9/2010
      "One person pretends to be rich, yet has nothing; another pretends to be poor, yet has great wealth."

      Comment


        Originally posted by momisery View Post
        You are wrong,,, Frankin was not seated for a long time due to a court battle in Mn. The super majority was short termed at best, and as we all know the left never sticks together or we would have had public option the day after frankin was put in service. The majority of the public was for Obamas plan, the public option. he lost that support because his own party was too bought out by big insurance to vote with him. Hence the real problems we have in Washinton.
        No, you are wrong. Stuart Smiley has been there long enough for the democrats to ram their health care nonsense down the throats of the majority of Americans who oppose the plan. Obama only needed the Super-Majority for 1 day to accomplish EVERYTHING he promised during the campaign. You know, HopenChange.
        Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

        Comment


          The polls showed 58% support for the public option, the change against the plan came after we got rid of the public option. I spend my time reading all sources and I have read part of the healthcare plan. I gave up when they took the public option off the table. Medicare operates on a 3% overhead, insurance take 30% to operate.. so why is it so expensive for us?? PROFITS>> We can not afford this. So I propose no insurance at all after all insurance produces a bunch of people that can not afford to pay their medical bills therefore they produce a nanny state. Either you pay full boat or you die, pretty simple?

          Comment


            You know I am a bit offend by the WALK away from the middle east statement there. My whole family has served, and a ton of my friends gave their lives for Viet Nam, and many are still giving due to Agent Orange. We did not WALK away, we were in the war and not allowed to fight it. If Nixion would not have MICRO managed it from the white house we might have actually won. The whole movement against the war was over that fact. We were not fighting it we were simply putting kids in Nam as cannon fodder ... If you go to war, let people fight for gosh sakes. My best friend since sandbox went over there, he has a purple heart and a child with disablities due to agent orange. He had a nice drinking problem too for years afterward. All he would say about it past it was horrible, was that kids died for no reason other than they could not fight the war, it was a political war.

            Comment


              Back to School.... Did you read: Yes, liberals are all about tone and feelings. Condescending, judgmental tone? I expected better from you. Would it not be better to deal with CONTENT on this discussion? Why is tone even relevant
              ?
              You don't find that just as offensive? I think they both were, and only one was scolded for it... interesting.

              Comment


                Originally posted by momisery View Post
                Back to School.... Did you read: Yes, liberals are all about tone and feelings. Condescending, judgmental tone? I expected better from you. Would it not be better to deal with CONTENT on this discussion? Why is tone even relevant
                ?
                You don't find that just as offensive? I think they both were, and only one was scolded for it... interesting.
                If you're going to quote me, at least use my screen name on your post and frankly, I don't see why BTS needs you to re-post my comment to her. I'm sure she saw my post the first time. Nice attempt to agitate though.
                Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                Comment


                  NO that has been your job, what I am pointing out is that this subject does rattle cages, and scolding one makes no real sense, either scold them all.. or let it go .. I prefer the let it go model myself.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by momisery View Post
                    You know I am a bit offend by the WALK away from the middle east statement there. My whole family has served, and a ton of my friends gave their lives for Viet Nam, and many are still giving due to Agent Orange. We did not WALK away, we were in the war and not allowed to fight it. If Nixion would not have MICRO managed it from the white house we might have actually won. The whole movement against the war was over that fact. We were not fighting it we were simply putting kids in Nam as cannon fodder ... If you go to war, let people fight for gosh sakes. My best friend since sandbox went over there, he has a purple heart and a child with disablities due to agent orange. He had a nice drinking problem too for years afterward. All he would say about it past it was horrible, was that kids died for no reason other than they could not fight the war, it was a political war.
                    If you're going to be offended please don't paraphrase me. I would prefer you actually quote me.

                    Well we are in those wars whether they are necessary or not. To simply walk away as we did in Southeast Asia in 1977 would result in a similar outcome, millions slaughtered.
                    Nowhere in my quote do I disparage the men and women who fought that war. I believe we should have finished it. The decision to walk away was a profound mistake made by Nixon. The war was made political by the left and Uncle Walter.

                    You may now return to your regularly scheduled offended-ness.
                    Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by momisery View Post
                      NO that has been your job, what I am pointing out is that this subject does rattle cages, and scolding one makes no real sense, either scold them all.. or let it go .. I prefer the let it go model myself.
                      I'm happy for you!
                      Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                      Comment


                        Condescending, judgmental tone? I think we are done here, I do not fight with people on line, I rather enjoy my time on here discussing with people, not fighting.

                        Comment


                          We had some complaints about this thread. I am going to post the rules of this forum which you all agreed to by joining the forum as a member. If the issues continue, the thread will be closed:

                          "Things you agree not to do:
                          • All BF users agree not to call people names or write a post simply to make a personal attack, or get a negative reaction; this behavior is not allowed on our forum. The use of derogatory language aimed at anyone will be severely dealt with. There is no need to agree with each other, or to even like each other. However, by signing onto BF you agree to treat each member and guest with the respect they deserve. No threats or personal attacks will be allowed."
                          _________________________________________
                          Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
                          Early Buy-Out: April 2006
                          Discharge: August 2006

                          "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by momisery View Post
                            Condescending, judgmental tone? I think we are done here, I do not fight with people on line, I rather enjoy my time on here discussing with people, not fighting.
                            Momisery, I always enjoy your posts. They are well-written and well thought out, and you have an interesting perspective on things.

                            I agree with you that the Constitution was always meant to be a living, breathable document that would grow and change as our country grew and changed. Interpreting the Constitution literally is impossible anyway, since it was written by men from a completely different historical context. We cannot see the world the way they saw it, as our historical context not the same as theirs.

                            I am a closet post-modernist, and like to trot out those views from time to time.
                            Last edited by backtoschool; 02-05-2010, 05:19 PM.
                            You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by LimpDisc View Post


                              Very well written.

                              I do apologize if my tone offends others at times. We are all very passionate about certain subjects and should respect others.

                              Thank you LimpDisc.
                              You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by OhioFiler View Post
                                If you're going to be offended please don't paraphrase me. I would prefer you actually quote me.



                                Nowhere in my quote do I disparage the men and women who fought that war. I believe we should have finished it. The decision to walk away was a profound mistake made by Nixon. The war was made political by the left and Uncle Walter.

                                You may now return to your regularly scheduled offended-ness.
                                I disagree with your interpretation of history OF. The war was made political by students and other young men who did not want to go over there and die without understanding why we were even there. There was never a clear or compelling explanation of the Domino Theory that made young Americans, or families with draft-age sons, or the "left", understand why we needed to sacrifice thousands of lives in a jungle war we were not equipped to win.

                                To call everyone who is not conservative, the "left" is to miss interesting demographic differences between groups that disagree with you.
                                Last edited by backtoschool; 02-05-2010, 05:03 PM. Reason: typos
                                You can't take a picture of this. It's already gone. ~~Nate, Six Feet Under

                                Comment

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