if you are on state assistance and file bk

[ssdsco]

I will teach my children the value of a dollar, the value of marriage, the value of family.

[Lindsay]

My husband only makes about $15,000 a year working at his buddy's shop. Eight years ago, he took this job to gain experience. He said a year or two and he'd be able to get a good dealership job. Well, all these years and many fights later, we're going to be filing bankruptcy. I'm really outraged at his lack of desire to provide for his family. He's been stringing me along for years and finally he told me that he has no intention of ever leaving his current job. He let us go into bankruptcy rather than get a better job. That's not our total income, I'm a powerseller on eBay (but thats not as good as it once was) and I also sell on Amazon and go to college full time. When I realized that my husband would never do the right thing by our family, I decided to go back to school. So I became a college freshmen at 38. It was really scary, I thought I'd have a heart attack on my first day of school, but it turned out good. I'm in my 3rd semester now and I really like it (except for algebra!); I can't wait to get my degree so I can get a great job. I'm also looking for a regular job that doesn't interfere with my college schedule. I figured it would be prudent to wait until after BK to do that though.

I guess the point is that nothing is forever. Just because I'm down and out now doesn't mean that I want to stay this way. I can go to college and try to better my education. I hope to get a good job and a divorce.

We actually make a little too much to qualify for food stamps, and we are pretty low income. But I did get foodstamps when my kids were small. Foodstamps are actually a great program; many people would starve without them with the prices of food these days. The other day at the store I was going to buy a bag of oranges and it was $9 and not even a huge bag. In the area of New York I live, I've read that 15% of the county is on them.

RilBrianne, I'm sure that things will get better for you. People have hard times and things get better. (((((((((Hugs)))))))))

[tay666]

You try raising 5 kids 2 with disabilities on 15,000 per yr.

There's your problem right there. You really think you and your family have any future on $15K/year?
I'll just say again, somehow, someway you need to be able to raise your income or you're right back in the same boat before you filed.

These are the posts that caught my attention. Especially the latter.

Finding a way to be self sufficient is key.

I don't see how I'd be wasting a bk. We wound up with medical debt because my husband broke his foot. Now with garnishment, even with the better hours at work, we're getting less pay. We need help. This is a way to help. Then more schooling, and a better job. Meanwhile, providing a safe and comfortable home.

You said people in a spot like mine would have wasted a bk. Is that truly what you meant?

Wasting it would be filing, then as soon as I can, taking out loans and credits cards beyond our means to pay.

I have to ask.
If you are only making $15000 a year and have 5 kids, how did anyone get a garnishment on you?
Your income should be exempt.
I could understand someone getting a judgement. But actually being able to collect on it has me scratching my head.
If there was truely no other way to not pay a garnishment, then no, the BK isn't wasted.
But if as I believe your income is too low for anyone to actually be able to collect on a judgement, then a BK might be wasted.
What happens if there is another medical emergency 6 months from now? You certainly still don't have sufficient income to cover the costs. And BK won't be an option then.
If it helps you turn the corner and start getting your financial life back on track, then a BK isn't wasted. That is the purpose. To give people a fresh chance at getting thier financial house in order.
Now, if your income is so low, or from protected sources, that a creditor cannot garnish it. And you don't have the means in the near future to increase your income. Then BK might be a waste.
It won't really improve anything.
Sure, it will wipe the slate clean, but without a way to increase the money coming in, you will just barely be getting by. Any snafu can send you back into debt that you cannot pay. But you won't have the ability to wipe that out for many years to come now.
Those are the ones that should wait a bit longer.
If not filing doesn't hure you financially, and filing doesn't help you financially. Then why file?

I make no judgements about any one person, or their circumstances.
As I have stated earlier in this thread, we are on assistance now also.
We were there many years ago too when the kids were first born. I know what it is like.
BK is a financial decision, and should only be made on financial grounds.

If you notice Keepmine only states "facts", nothing else. Facts as he/she sees them only. They see only the self-help business, financial end of the situation. Not the emotional, mental, or physical side of anything.

As hard as the emotional and mental stuff is, it shouldn't factor into financial decisions of this magnitude.
I'm not saying don't put family first. Because I have done that before, and don't regret it a bit. Took lower paying jobs that would give me more time with my family. Or passed on certain promotions that I felt would take more of a toll on me mentally than I was willing to risk.
But those decisions were made with the knowledge that the results still left us fiscally solvent. And were made after careful calculations on how things would work out and what would be best for us as a family.
Just as the decision I made when I sacrificed time with my family and in part my health when when my wife went back to school.
We can't afford the gas for her to get back and forth. So I work a full time job at the factory, then I work a part time job doing construction to make ends meet. Pulling 12-14-16 hour days doing manual labor may not be the best for my 40 year old body (and trust me, this body lets me know how much it doesn't like it).
But long term it will pay dividends when my wife can get a decent paying job.

[HRx]

Keep this thread civil folks...or it will locked, and bans will be handed out! Convey your opinions respectfully without name calling, and using condesending tones in your posts!

Thanks!

[Minnymouth]

tay66,

The emotional, mental, and physical stress of being in severe debt plays an important role in our lives. It disrupts our families, causing much anger between spouses and affects how we live and survive from month to month. All these factors, including it being a "business decision" affects our lives tremondously until we get it all straightened out.

So while filing bankruptcy is a "business decision" it touches many other areas of our lives. Money issues can cause more grief to a marriage then just about anything else. It has destroyed many a family who would not try to resolve the problem.

Often money issues creates a "no way out" feeling that is devasating to us mentally, emotionally, and physically. It becomes a "burden" that many cannot handle..........

The "good, the bad and the ugly" of filing bankruptcy is:

GOOD
1. It puts us back on the road to financial freedom to get a "fresh start in our lives"
2. It wipes out all previous debts except student loans, taxes, child support.

BAD
1. It ruins our credit report scores temporarily till we can build our credit back up.
2. We often have to sacrifice our homes, autos, assets.
3. Dealing with a Trustee in charge of our financial affairs until our cases are closed.
4. Works on our nerves till its all over with. Patience are strained.

UGLY
1. Creditors drive us crazy with threats, lawsuits, garnishments, etc till we do file.
2. Spouses often fight and divorce over financial problems. It disrupts the whole family - children also.
3. Often being forced into a Chapter 13 for 3-5 years due to excess income.
4. Filers often have to use medications to get through bankruptcy for mental and emotional stability.

So all factors combined are a part of the bankruptcy process.

The above are one reason a "support group" is so important to bankruptcy filers. We are here, and want to help others that are just starting the process. We KNOW what their up against, things that can happen, and all thats involved in getting thru the process.

Lots of issues can be resolved just by talking about them, offering suggestions on what they can do, easing someone's mind, and the emotional support is Fantastic.

Many "sides" to filing bankruptcy............

My thoughts...

[$$only4ever]

Everyone makes their own choices and no one should judge whether it is right or wrong.

When I had my kids, I decided to stay at home with them, which really made money tight considering that we had a mortgage, etc. However, DH worked 2 jobs and I did home day care full time so we could make ends meet until my youngest was in school a full day. We went without and I didn't drive a new car. It was my choice to stay home, but with that being said, as soon I was able, I went back to work full time.

My situation was temporary and I upgraded my situation as soon as I could.

I agree with the other posters concerning filing bankruptcy. I would not have gone through all of this if when it was all said and done, I was not in a much better place. As I have stated on other posts, when I complete my plan, I will be debt-free...
just like a chapter 7 except I had to take a detour.

Sorry, I guess that I am a self improved person too or just someone trying to chase the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.

[ssdsco]

[QUOTE=Minnymouth;118854]

4. Filers often have to use medications to get through bankruptcy for mental and emotional stability.

QUOTE]

Does anyone have any recommendations ? Budlight's not doing it anymore.


Seriously, the support provided by this forum is "priceless".

[Elle615]

I have to ask.
If you are only making $15000 a year and have 5 kids, how did anyone get a garnishment on you?
Your income should be exempt.
I could understand someone getting a judgement. But actually being able to collect on it has me scratching my head.
If there was truely no other way to not pay a garnishment, then no, the BK isn't wasted.
.

I'm going to tackle this question, since I'm the one that mentioned garnishment.

First, we make about $10,000 a year the past two years. (Been a very rough two years.) We are in a multi-family household, so we'll be okay once we tackle the debt and garnishment problem so that my husband can return to school. I plan to return once our children are in school.
We have two kids, ages 1 and 4.

The garnishment. We get paid every other week. So anything my husband makes over $351 is going to the garnishment. After his insurance is taken out, that's leaving us with $312 twice a month to survive on. Obviously this will sink us.

I had thought it would work out a bit differently, so after the intial garnishment perhaps this time the hospitals lawyers would work with us. http://www.dol.gov/esa/regs/compliance/whd/whdfs30.htm
I had thought that if his disposable income was between $351 to $468 they could only touch 20% of that difference. (So if he made $451, it would be 20% on $10. Nope, it's not working that way.)

We are also in season, so my husband is getting more hours now. Unfortunately it means more money garnished, instead of us being able to try to negoitate payment terms with other creditors, and we have another medical place sueing us.

I had been trying to pay off what I could. And keeping current on the medical debt I could.

We either need to come up with $3,000 to pay off the garnished debt, or we need $1100 for bankruptcy. (And the $3000 is one of the smaller medical debts we have.)

In contrast, we have a $9,000 medical debt to a different hospital that is older then the one we were sued on, and they are working with us so far. But who knows for how much longer since the garnishment is affecting us drastically.

[JollyGG]

The kids today have no respect for anyone and no boundaries and I may not make 500,000/yr but I'll tell you something sir, my kids will probably be much better off than yours. I will teach my children the value of a dollar, the value of marriage, the value of family. It's a shame you don't know what those words mean.

I'm biting my tounge really really hard here. I work, my husband works, and we are raising two fantastic children.

I made my choices for my own reasons, and I made the choices that were right for me and my family. You did the same. Neither choice is more right or better than the other. Enough said.

[Run]

Just to give some perspective, I and my sister (and two older brothers) were latchkey children. My sister came home form kindergarten with a key around her neck to three older brother the oldest of which was only ten. I suffered a LOT (was molested and exposed to a LOT of bad stuff from the moment she started working).

She tells me that she doesn't regret the decision despite the cost to me, that she needed it for her. I personally have a very hard time with that!

In our neighborhood we have had to call the police on a neighbor boy and constantly kick kids out for being a bad influence on our children (they want to play sex etc...). These are kindergartener's up to 6th graders!!! And we live in a good place, a small town with well under 2,000 people on an island (so that is all the population there is).

I doubt people really know what their children are exposed to.

My wife had very similar experiences and so we are very protective and yet still it is a constant battle. We may be miserable excuses for productive members of society (depending on your values), but when we stand to account some day, we will have kept our true priorities, our true priorities.

When we started marriage out, we sacrificed so our kids could have the works (gymnastics, powerwheels, nice safe car, swimming lessons etc...), but it did not contribute to their well being or happiness and was a waste of money first and foremost.

We have tried the road of success, and the road less traveled, and did both well for a time. We were well on our way, but to what? Well I can tell you our priorities are clear now, and our sacrifices are not sacrifices at all, rather blessings!

As both sides of the debate have posted, it is a personal value choice. At the end of the day, we all stand accountable for the decisions we make.

I like it this way, maybe you don't, but I hope you can at least understand and respect our choices.

[Minnymouth]

Run,
Everyone make their choices in Life......... and they live with them....

Some folks its all "financial worth", others "family first"......

If financial worth has priority - family suffers.
If family has priority - sometimes the financial end stays in a turmoil.

Life can be a viscious circle - bumpy roads, and up and down hills, and seldom smooth traveling.

Many children that come from well to do families suffer from lack of parental guidance. Kids from poor or middle class families get by with the bare neccessities in life.

Its hard in todays society to reach a "happy median"...... where everything falls into place and life is smooth living.

Many parents haven't the slightest idea what they kids are into..... and some just don't want to be "bothered" by it either!! Some are overly protective and some seem to do it just right!!

Kids are "naturally curious" about life and themselves.

We want our kids to be affectionate..... so we start them as babies saying "hug and kiss everyone goodby"..... then as they get a little older it comes time to tell the girls "don't be sitting in any mans lap". We send signals of do's and don'ts as the kids grow older.

Kids are going to be curious about sex.........it's only human nature to be that way.
Our school systems are now designed to teach kids about sex starting in grade school..... It's in "their face" at school thru sex education, and even now schools are supplying condoms and birthcontrol for kids as young as 10-11 WITHOUT parents consent... (recent article and newscast on this).

Parents have to keep a close eye and ear on their kids behavior these days. They are exposed to so much at school, on tv, movies, games they play, etc......

Parents really need to be more involved in their kids every day lives, there whereabouts, activities, and their circle of friends....

It's hard to be parents this day and time especially when kids are forced into being latchkey kids due to both parents working....

"Parenting" is the hardest job you will ever have in your lifetime. Its a "trial and error" kind of job...... and takes the patience of the best!!!

Most parents want to raise happy, educated, well-rounded, active and motivated kids.

Its a job - folks......

[tay666]

We either need to come up with $3,000 to pay off the garnished debt, or we need $1100 for bankruptcy. (And the $3000 is one of the smaller medical debts we have.)

Have you checked into legal aid in your area?
I'd think you would qualify for free, or reduced legal services.
I know I have checked in our area, and we fit the guidlines.
So when we are at a good place to file, that is the first place I am going.
The worst they can say is no.
Haven't gotten around to checking into how broke we have to be to see about waving the filing fee with the court yet.
But as things get closer, I will be checking that out as well.
Just trying to point out some options that may help your situation.
If you can file for free, it could help you out a lot.

[tay666]

As both sides of the debate have posted, it is a personal value choice. At the end of the day, we all stand accountable for the decisions we make.

I like it this way, maybe you don't, but I hope you can at least understand and respect our choices.

Oh most definitely.
I wouldn't want someone second guessing my parenting choices.
So I try not to do that with others.
That said, I do try to keep an open mind to suggestions. Sometimes they get me thinking 'outside the box' for solutions that weren't apparent before.