tens of thousands over the median?

[lalap123]

Just to jump in here - don't think this would apply to your situation b/c you are not married, but if you are married and file individually you get to deduct your spouse's expenses (such as alimony, child support and his or her credit card payments). This will also bring your income down closer to median.

[floridian]

you cant deduct CC debt and any expenses that are going to be stripped away by the BK, can you? thats the problem, once they take away my CC debt, the corpse is looking too good and they want to sentence me to indentured servant status..

[CatsInTrouble]

OP_ are you looking for more expenses for the means test? THere's some in my blog that we had to root up.

[Tom_Mi]

I was a little over, but it was apartments buildings I owned (which tanked) that drove me here.

If you classify your chapter7 as "non-consumer" the means test gets less weight.

[wonkettegirl]

I don't understand all the "take on new debt" advice. I was pretty sure that was called "fraud" and frowned upon by the bankruptcy courts . . .

[floridian]

its not anymore about fraud, than it is about discrimination against those who dont have lavish homes and vacation spots to claim...or anymore than other planning bk tactics....i just want all my legal deductions, the same as on my income taxes.... what the heck, i pass the means test by a mile, but hosed on the DMI....

ive got a lawyer who has my money and knows if i get a 13, he gets more..

[wonkettegirl]

I was honestly asking the question, not accusing you of fraud. How is taking on new debt in anticipation of bankruptcy so that you can discharge more debt not fraud? I don't understand what people are telling you.

What do you mean you pass the means test but get hosed on the disposable monthly income? I was over the median income and had a very successful, easy chapter 7. My boyfriend is well over the median and probably faces a 13, if he chooses to file. Not having to pay interest, not facing lawsuits and wage garnishment certainly doesn't feel like "slavery" to him, but to each his own, I guess.

[DebtStinks]

It is simple bankruptcy planning. It’s no different than waiting for income to drop off your 6 month look back, or waiting 90 days for credit card charges to fall off, waiting 12 months for payments to friends/family to become a non-issue, spending that income tax return on exempt items, the list goes on and on.

The grey areas of the bankruptcy code require you to plan ahead. If I’m not in area that lets me take the ownership expense on a vehicle that I own free and clear then I’m going to trade that sucker in and get a newer car with a nice small payment. This also makes sure that I have solid car in the years post bankruptcy when it would be hard or expensive to get one. None of these things are considered fraud in the eyes of the bankruptcy court/code.

[wonkettegirl]

Thanks for the clarification. This seems a little more "grey" than the other examples you listed, but I guess that's open to interpretation.

[floridian]

my retirement is less than the means and SS isnt counted.... however, if you are left looking good with extra DMI, they can take it, in a thirteen.. this is why i need to whittle down the DMI with more expenses... you obviously had more expenses, that kept you out of a 13..

[wonkettegirl]

my retirement is less than the means and SS isnt counted.... however, if you are left looking good with extra DMI, they can take it, in a thirteen.. this is why i need to whittle down the DMI with more expenses... you obviously had more expenses, that kept you out of a 13..

So, you receive Social Security + retirement, and that puts you over the median income? But if you had about $500 more in expenses you could pass the means test? I think I get it now.

One thing about the "bread and water" though - your monthly allowable expenses allow for a pretty good standard of living, I thought. Plenty of grocery money, even a clothing allowance, but not a lot to sock away for those unexpected expenses that come our way. For me, that was the scariest part of being in a 13. After reading the 13 board, though, it seems that most people are able to squirrel away some money here and there and can deal with it. If you are forced to do a 13, I hope you can, too.

You are correct - I was over the median by only a few thousand dollars and my expenses, including the mortgage on the house I dumped, were counted. In my district, that issue has been litigated and decided - even folks dumping their houses get to count their mortgage payments in the means test. It seems odd to me, but hey, I didn't argue!

Good luck to you.