Obamacare is working already!

[chrisdfw]

"This new social contract is based on a number of values and principles that should
be familiar to all. The Task Force has identified six, namely universality, solidarity,
fairness, efficiency, responsibility and freedom."
our public health system into question."

"In all the industrialized countries, except the United States, universal access to
care is the common value and fundamental objective."

Most of those values are counter to the one value I think should stand head and shoulders above every and any other... Freedom.
My freedom to NOT pay for other's health care, others freedom NOT to pay for mine, unless I voluntarily agree to be part of an
insurance system.

This is not about access to health care, this is about who PAYS for it. Most pushing for universal healthcare also are pushing
for the productive employeed people and busineesses to pay for it. It is just one more example of shifting the costs of goodies for
lower income people to higher income people.

Mutualization of risks is a legitimate function of insurance, but insurance is to cover a risk before it happens. What
the healthcare plan does is allow you get insurance after you get sick, that is like buying care insurance after you
have an accident. The fact is that nobody really addresses the fact that we aren't sharing risk under this system, we
are simply shifting costs to the productive parts of society.

[msm859]

Most of those values are counter to the one value I think should stand head and shoulders above every and any other... Freedom.
My freedom to NOT pay for other's health care, others freedom NOT to pay for mine, unless I voluntarily agree to be part of an
insurance system.

This is not about access to health care, this is about who PAYS for it. Most pushing for universal healthcare also are pushing
for the productive employeed people and busineesses to pay for it. It is just one more example of shifting the costs of goodies for
lower income people to higher income people.

Mutualization of risks is a legitimate function of insurance, but insurance is to cover a risk before it happens. What
the healthcare plan does is allow you get insurance after you get sick, that is like buying care insurance after you
have an accident. The fact is that nobody really addresses the fact that we aren't sharing risk under this system, we
are simply shifting costs to the productive parts of society.

The reality is we already have universal health care that you and I pay for. If someone does not have insurance now they go to the er room of the hospital and get very expensive care. If they have no insurance and rack up huge medical bills they go bk -- We all pay for this. The the real question is how can we deliver medical services in the most efficient way since we are all going to pay anyway. Private insurance is NOT the answer. Idealistic notions to "freedom" will not change reality. In a civilized society we are not going to drive past the person in the car accident with guts hanging out to first find out if they have "health insurance". Thus we need to be pragmatic. The number one preventable cause of increased health needs in this country is obesity. We need to ''curb" that growth. I would have a special tax on junk food, alcohol, tobacco, fast food etc. that would solely go into a fund for health care -- you are then "free" to live an unhealthy life without me having to pay for it all. I would have a public option -- everyone should have the option to buy the exact same health coverage as congress at the exact same price. I suspect that would get congress to be really creative instead of just looking after special interest. Health care is a BASIC need of a civilized society just as are utilities - which are regulated in costs and profits. This is a serious problem that is only going to get worse, and we need serious answers that give a real solution.

[chrisdfw]

The reality is we already have universal health care that you and I pay for. If someone does not have insurance now they go to the er room of the hospital and get very expensive care. If they have no insurance and rack up huge medical bills they go bk -- We all pay for this. ....
Thus we need to be pragmatic. The number one preventable cause of increased health needs in this country is obesity. We need to ''curb" that growth. I would have a special tax on junk food, alcohol, tobacco, fast food etc. that would solely go into a fund for health care -- you are then "free" to live an unhealthy life without me having to pay for it all.

I've never been accused of being pragmatic

Sadly what you say is true, we do all pay for others accidents and such, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Health care is not a basic need, What we have in this country is really disease care anyway. Nobody is entitled to healthcare as right.

A right is something which merely requires non-interference, you have the right to free speech, but I don't have to provide you a microphone or TV time. Healthcare is different, because in order for someone to have it, someone else has to provide it. In the free market you see a doctor and pay him for his services. Under government care we either force the doctor to provide it, or force someone to pay for it, that goes against freedom and is more akin to slavery than freedom.

Slavery is when one person is forced to serve another. Fractional slavery is when you force to serve another... just for a small percentage of income. I like freedom, I detest slavery.

I don't think utilities are a basic need either. Nobody has a right to electricity and you don't need it anyway. If people would stop running their air conditioner at 70 degree in the summer maybe they could pay for health care, if they ditched telephone and cable maybe they could pay it.

What business is it of mine what someone spends their money on... now you get the point. If someone wants to spend their money any way they want I don't care, as long as they don't then expect me to subsidize their food or healthcare or anything else. I've done charity work for several organizations and I had to quit. I hated going to people's houses and seeing them on food stamps and section 8 housing with cable tv and air conditioning running.

Our society is extremely wasteful and I don't feel like I should have to pay one cent for anyone else's needs. We need a country of free men, not a country of slaves. Nobody should be made to serve the needs of another. My solution is that everyone pays for their own healthcare. Catastrophic insurance only. Upfront pricing for doctors (like plastic surgery, which is very affordable since they compete on price), everyone pays for their own care, at least the first several thousand dollars. We can learn to be selective and make do with an x-ray instead of a CT scan, MRI, etc. More healthcare doesn't even equate with better outcomes. We need less healthcare in this country not more. Reduce the demand and see what happens to price.

If we are going to do it, I do like the idea of consumption taxes on junk food though. (oh sh!t we might agree... I quit) I think I'm gonna go eat some cheetos and have a beer.

[Stilltheone]

I haven't read the whole thread, but found the original poster's post funny...because we also just got a notice that "due to the new healthcare reform act, costs to healthcare will increase substantially". What I also thought interesting was that it will be reported what the company pays for our health insurance on our w-2, but we won't be taxed on it "as of right now"...Gee, I wonder what will happen next? LOL

We've thought about dropping our company's insurance and going on the free insurance through the state of WI (badgercare), but one of the stipulations for Obamacare is that if you go OFF of your company's insurance, you aren't allowed back on AT ALL, so we've decided to keep our company's insurance.

I felt the same thing, Thanks Obama for helping out the American people, when we're in a flipping RECESSION, of all times!

[dscurlock]

Actually, a simple fix would have been to have a public option. Everyone should have the option to buy the exact same health insurance as Congress, at the exact same price. I guarantee they would then find a solution to the health care crisis.
As to those blaming "Obama", what solution would you offer instead?

This is the ONLY post I can agree with...

but unfor is about money, and how the insur company can cash in...and the closer
we get to this date, then I bet you will see more, and more stories about
my higher insurance costs...I can and will expect them to skyrocket until
that that comes into play, afterall, someone has to pay for John Doe's lifetime
illness...when have you known the govt to pick up any tab? Is it not always
passed onto the taxpayer? one way or the other, we will get the bill.

[msm859]

This is the ONLY post I can agree with...

but unfor is about money, and how the insur company can cash in...and the closer
we get to this date, then I bet you will see more, and more stories about
my higher insurance costs...I can and will expect them to skyrocket until
that that comes into play, afterall, someone has to pay for John Doe's lifetime
illness...when have you known the govt to pick up any tab? Is it not always
passed onto the taxpayer? one way or the other, we will get the bill.

Well thanks for the affirmation. Although it is not just about money, it is also about "power" politicians want to keep their "power" so they cater to the money -- and we all lose. My suggestion would force them to come up with a real solution for everyone. I would not care how they did it, but if we all lived by the same rules I know they would make sure everyone had good affordable health coverage. You are right and what people don't see is that we ALL pay for "universal" health care now. I just spent 22 hours at the hospital to get IV antibiotics and it cost $8k +. They would have kept me all weekend but I left because they weren't doing anything for me (forgot about morning round of antibiotics and when Dr. did rounds didn't see me because I was not in room - on outside patio - though apparently no one looked for me or knew were I was). Thus, I am now paying for this broken system, because what I received wasn't worth $8k, but I have to pay for all the others that have no insurance and no way to pay. Personally I think the only viable solution is a single payor although I would listen to any ideas with a strong public option. Without either of those it is DOOMED to fail. As to it being about "money" that is true. The real problem looming on the horizon is that demand for health services is going to balloon as we continue to increase our preventable health problems - obesity. We should tax fast food, junk food, alcohol and tobacco and use the revenue solely to offset the spiraling healthcare costs. Quit being penny wise and pound foolish -- and be more proactive on preventative care and education. Even the new system gives them a disincentive to save. If they get to keep 15-20% profit they will make more money if they can charge higher premiums and have a higher costs of doing business. We need a system that includes a design to lower costs and demand for health services.