What is frugal living?

[drowningintn]

Living Frugally is more about what you do with what you have.

To Live Frugally you need to live below your means and save what you can.

So living frugally will vary widely depending on income.

The problem isn't bankruptcy itself the problem is credit. It was to easy to get and people abused it. That's what has led our nation to this crisis. Back in 2005 I urged my Senators and Representative to add amendments to the Bankruptcy Reform act limiting available credit to individuals and making lenders more responsible for checking income qualifications before lending money. Neither made it into the bill.

Why do you keep insisting that "the people" Abused the credit system? I feel that the people were suckered in, into getting their credit cards. The banks who issused the cards are the Abusers!

I remember back in the 70's when all the ads, the Banks, and yes, the government were pushing credit down everyone's throat. They pushed that all the interest paid was tax deductable. They issued credit lines of $500 with minimum payment being $10 and then advertised that you really needed to buy that new appliance ar whatever..blahblahblah. You think, yeh I can afford that so that's the beginning. Remember too, back then minimum wage was around $1.65 and it would take just about forever to save up to get to pay cash for the item. Why do that when you can "charge it" and deduct the interest too? Before you know it, there are all sorts of cards with higher limits being offered to you by the Banks. Next thing you know, they drop the interest deduction from the 1040s. Banks start raising the interest they charge for the money you are using and next the payments that you thought you could afford have now trippled! Wow, what a scheme. NO, the PEOPLE are not the ones abusing the cards, the BANKS are abusing the people. When my 13 year old business failed in 2001, the first thing I did was call Advanta and told them what had happened and that I really wanted to repay my balance and asked if there was any whay they would work with me on this, maybe by freezing the interest and letting me pay off just the balance ($28,122) or by lowering the minimums. They laughed at me and told me that since my business was no longer a business my interest would go from 5% to 29.9% and that if I had a problem with it then I should file BK. I just about choked.

I never want to hear that people are the abusers. THE BANKS are the abusers.

[needachance]

Living frugally before filing...well I guess we qualify.

My husband lost his good job 7 years ago and started working at half his salary, I went back to work and we have scrimped and done with out for 7 years trying pay off this mess of medical bills, coming up about 100 dollars short every month and having to cut money from other things.

So, what do we do to live frugally?

We have rented and never bought because it wasn't an option.

We live in 880 square feet with 2 kids and 2 adults.

We don't park our cars (with over 200,000 miles on each of them) in the garage because that is where the kids sleep.

We do have a dishwasher because it came with the townhouse we rent.

We live in the ghetto, a place where in the past 13 years our cars have been broken into so many times we have lost count, and not even to steal anything, just to break out windows for "fun" apparently.

Because we got in so much of a mess as a result of not having insurance, the first bill to get paid each month after rent is the medical insurance bill, to the tune of 400 dollars, plus kids medications to the tune of 100 dollars, plus doctor visits to the tune of 200 dollars.

We have a washing machine that holds only 2 pairs of jeans at a time, so we don't wash very often, and things never get dried in the drier, I have strings around my house to dry things on.

We never buy anything full price, books, toys, clothes etc, all come from good will or ebay.

We have never celebrated Christmas with gifts (thank goodness) but the kids birthday gifts went from appx 200 dollars apiece each year to about 20 dollars apiece, supplemented by the money sent to them by grandparents etc.

We don't have any pay TV, in fact we don't even have a TV.

My kids have the small hand held game boys that were purchased used by my parents (not DS) and no gaming systems.

We read for entertainment, from the library.

We don't go out to eat.

We don't go to shows, movies or music productions even though we love them.

We don't go to the doctor or dentist, the kids need it more than we do.

I spend appx 2 hours a week organizing and matching up coupons to save over 50% on my grocery bill and we eat what is on sale.

I spend months in the summer locating, picking and preserving produce to help with our grocery bill since my kids cannot eat things with preservatives (it triggers seizures for both of them) and organic preservative free is too expensive for us.

That being said, after 7 years of living this way trying to pay this off....in the past month, since we quit paying the bills...we took the kids out to dinner and bought each of them a brand new lego set with all the pieces in there. It was like Christmas morning in our house! And we are going to be able to move at the end of October into a town house in a better part of town that has some more room in it so we can actually put our kids in the house rather than the garage. Finally, we have hope.

So tell me....do I qualify for BK by your standards sig?

[BigJohn]

Bought groceries tonight.

$.99 per pound pork roast.
$.79 per pound chicken thighs

$.39 for 6 hotdogs in a bag weighing 7 ounces.

$.17 a bag for noodles

$1.99 gallon of milk

$1.99 for 64 ounce of juice

[BigJohn]

Living frugally before filing...well I guess we qualify.

My husband lost his good job 7 years ago and started working at half his salary, I went back to work and we have scrimped and done with out for 7 years trying pay off this mess of medical bills, coming up about 100 dollars short every month and having to cut money from other things.

So, what do we do to live frugally?

We have rented and never bought because it wasn't an option.

We live in 880 square feet with 2 kids and 2 adults.

We don't park our cars (with over 200,000 miles on each of them) in the garage because that is where the kids sleep.

We do have a dishwasher because it came with the townhouse we rent.

We live in the ghetto, a place where in the past 13 years our cars have been broken into so many times we have lost count, and not even to steal anything, just to break out windows for "fun" apparently.

Because we got in so much of a mess as a result of not having insurance, the first bill to get paid each month after rent is the medical insurance bill, to the tune of 400 dollars, plus kids medications to the tune of 100 dollars, plus doctor visits to the tune of 200 dollars.

We have a washing machine that holds only 2 pairs of jeans at a time, so we don't wash very often, and things never get dried in the drier, I have strings around my house to dry things on.

We never buy anything full price, books, toys, clothes etc, all come from good will or ebay.

We have never celebrated Christmas with gifts (thank goodness) but the kids birthday gifts went from appx 200 dollars apiece each year to about 20 dollars apiece, supplemented by the money sent to them by grandparents etc.

We don't have any pay TV, in fact we don't even have a TV.

My kids have the small hand held game boys that were purchased used by my parents (not DS) and no gaming systems.

We read for entertainment, from the library.

We don't go out to eat.

We don't go to shows, movies or music productions even though we love them.

We don't go to the doctor or dentist, the kids need it more than we do.

I spend appx 2 hours a week organizing and matching up coupons to save over 50% on my grocery bill and we eat what is on sale.

I spend months in the summer locating, picking and preserving produce to help with our grocery bill since my kids cannot eat things with preservatives (it triggers seizures for both of them) and organic preservative free is too expensive for us.

That being said, after 7 years of living this way trying to pay this off....in the past month, since we quit paying the bills...we took the kids out to dinner and bought each of them a brand new lego set with all the pieces in there. It was like Christmas morning in our house! And we are going to be able to move at the end of October into a town house in a better part of town that has some more room in it so we can actually put our kids in the house rather than the garage. Finally, we have hope.

So tell me....do I qualify for BK by your standards sig?

God, if you should live near me, I would bring you over a cooked pork roast.

[JRScott]

Why do you keep insisting that "the people" Abused the credit system? I feel that the people were suckered in, into getting their credit cards. The banks who issused the cards are the Abusers!

I remember back in the 70's when all the ads, the Banks, and yes, the government were pushing credit down everyone's throat. They pushed that all the interest paid was tax deductable. They issued credit lines of $500 with minimum payment being $10 and then advertised that you really needed to buy that new appliance ar whatever..blahblahblah. You think, yeh I can afford that so that's the beginning. Remember too, back then minimum wage was around $1.65 and it would take just about forever to save up to get to pay cash for the item. Why do that when you can "charge it" and deduct the interest too? Before you know it, there are all sorts of cards with higher limits being offered to you by the Banks. Next thing you know, they drop the interest deduction from the 1040s. Banks start raising the interest they charge for the money you are using and next the payments that you thought you could afford have now trippled! Wow, what a scheme. NO, the PEOPLE are not the ones abusing the cards, the BANKS are abusing the people. When my 13 year old business failed in 2001, the first thing I did was call Advanta and told them what had happened and that I really wanted to repay my balance and asked if there was any whay they would work with me on this, maybe by freezing the interest and letting me pay off just the balance ($28,122) or by lowering the minimums. They laughed at me and told me that since my business was no longer a business my interest would go from 5% to 29.9% and that if I had a problem with it then I should file BK. I just about choked.

I never want to hear that people are the abusers. THE BANKS are the abusers.

While the banks share in responsibility and those Administrations that have encouraged it, ultimately you are responsible for your own actions. You filled out an application to get a card. You used the card. They didn't hold a gun to your head and tell you you had to get a card or use it. You agreed to the terms of the card just like I did, and ultimately we had more on our cards than we could reasonably payback in a reasonable amount of time.

What you are arguing is almost like the alcoholic who blames the store that sold him the beer to get drunk.

[Flamingo]

Why do you keep insisting that "the people" Abused the credit system? I feel that the people were suckered in, into getting their credit cards. The banks who issused the cards are the Abusers!

I remember back in the 70's when all the ads, the Banks, and yes, the government were pushing credit down everyone's throat. They pushed that all the interest paid was tax deductable. They issued credit lines of $500 with minimum payment being $10 and then advertised that you really needed to buy that new appliance ar whatever..blahblahblah. You think, yeh I can afford that so that's the beginning. Remember too, back then minimum wage was around $1.65 and it would take just about forever to save up to get to pay cash for the item. Why do that when you can "charge it" and deduct the interest too? Before you know it, there are all sorts of cards with higher limits being offered to you by the Banks. Next thing you know, they drop the interest deduction from the 1040s. Banks start raising the interest they charge for the money you are using and next the payments that you thought you could afford have now trippled! Wow, what a scheme. NO, the PEOPLE are not the ones abusing the cards, the BANKS are abusing the people. When my 13 year old business failed in 2001, the first thing I did was call Advanta and told them what had happened and that I really wanted to repay my balance and asked if there was any whay they would work with me on this, maybe by freezing the interest and letting me pay off just the balance ($28,122) or by lowering the minimums. They laughed at me and told me that since my business was no longer a business my interest would go from 5% to 29.9% and that if I had a problem with it then I should file BK. I just about choked.

I never want to hear that people are the abusers. THE BANKS are the abusers.

You will eventually get out of your state of denial and realize it is you who applied for and obtained the card, should have read all the fine print, and it was you who ran your finances, should have known what you could or could not afford, and should have handled your money better. You let your money control you instead of you being in control of your money. Debt causes BK, not a plastic credit card. It's how it's used. This is not meant to be rude or condescending...we all get wake up calls usually in the form of a job or income loss.

[AMISLANDER]

Thanks for your post al. I will take your advice and cut back on my eating out to save $10 per month.

I do have a couple of points of disagreement:

- In my opinion, the toyota 4 runner is definietly a luxury item that you should sell immediately. My S10 was two years old when I bought it for $7,000 and now has over 100,000 miles with about $250 of maintenance. I saved $7,000 on the purchase price, and that buys a lot of mainenance.

- I think with good planning you will find that a cell phone is not worth the money unless your bill is very low.

God Bless America

I own the 4Runner, i.e. no car payment, not luxury item, if I ever was homeless, I could sleep in it, I have almost 150K miles & it's good for another 150K.

Cell phone is totally worth it; I haven't had a land line since 2003 and I am not tied to waiting for phone calls at home, phone is $39/month plus taxes/insurance.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I agree with "drowningintn" to some degree. I remember when free credit cards ready to use came in the mail. Just a phone call would activate them. Due to fraud, this was stopped and only junk mail offering the junk plastic. Yes and the rates started going wild.

However, as several suggested, nobody bent any arms to force a purchase with a CC instead of saving up for it. I can say at this time, everything we own is free and clear with no hangover debt attached to it. I shall not use a CC card again. I have a debit card only for convenience as the money used comes out of the money in the account. My money, not a banks money. 'Hub

[hereforinfo]

I never want to hear that people are the abusers. THE BANKS are the abusers.

No, the people are the abusers. The banks are the enablers.

What you are arguing is almost like the alcoholic who blames the store that sold him the beer to get drunk.

...or blames Mcdonalds because he is overweight. The commercials made the food look so delicious and the temptation was just too overwhelming.

Ultimately you are responsible for your own actions. Perhaps the bank was too lenient in extending you a large credit line, but YOU made the choice to use it.

[NoMoreCards]

IMHO...

The cause for people getting into a debt nightmare falls on both the banks AND the consumers shoulders.

Banks issued credit too easily (and I work for a bank)
People got more credit than was reasonable, and used it.

For me, I have to accept the majority of the responsibility for the financial mess I am in, or it will repeat in the future. So I am using the BK 7 to get a fresh start, and making the changes needed to be sure I do not repeat mistakes of the past.

[BkinTX]

Frugal choices we make include:

Planning a bi-weekly menu and grocery shopping with a list. We budget $440/month for groceries for a family of 6. Sometimes I can shave $40-$60 a month off of that based on the meals I plan.

Eating meatless meals a few nights a week.

Driving a bought-for-cash minivan.

Getting haircuts on post for under $7/haircut.

Shopping clearance sales and buying a season ahead on children's clothing.

Using a Netflix and Gamefly account to save on entertainment expenses.

Setting a $150 limit on birthdays (for party and gifts combined) and $150/child limit on Christmas gifts.

Making use of resources like Freecycle and Craigslist.

We enjoy the challenge of budgeting and saving post-bk and have found that frugality is a balance. We prioritize our wants and needs so that we get the most enjoyment out of money. It's not always easy but our stress levels have gone way down after dumping all that debt!

[BigJohn]

While the banks share in responsibility and those Administrations that have encouraged it, ultimately you are responsible for your own actions. You filled out an application to get a card. You used the card. They didn't hold a gun to your head and tell you you had to get a card or use it. You agreed to the terms of the card just like I did, and ultimately we had more on our cards than we could reasonably payback in a reasonable amount of time.

What you are arguing is almost like the alcoholic who blames the store that sold him the beer to get drunk.

I don't think things are as simple as we would like to think they are.


For example, I had one banker come to my business and asked if I wanted to take out aa loan. What was I doing before she came to my business? I was sitting in a room with the lights out trying to get some sleep. Why was I doing that? I had MRSA in both knees and looking back on the situation, was pretty close to being dead.

I signed for the loan. Should I have done that? Who knows. On that day I had taken extra oxycodeine for the pain.

Sure I signed for the loan but you have to wonder why would a bank offer a loan to somebody that looks half dead.

[IBroke]

Perhaps the bank was too lenient in extending you a large credit line, but YOU made the choice to use it.

And THEY made the choice to extend it. Or look at what happend to so many 401ks: How many people lost their savings WITHOUT obtaining any credit? How many people were "surprised" to find out their investments in specific funds were gone although the banker told them they were a "safe bet"?

The discussion is like arguing what was there first: The hen or the egg?!

Both sides (banks AND creditors) share the same burden of fault.

In Europe, it's (and was) impossible to obtain that much debt as an individual. That was a wise thing to do. A recent study now says that the United States aren't the richest region any more - they were overtaken by Europe.

[debtprison]

Frugal to me means living on the bare minimum needed to keep the necessities - shelter, food, health, and transportation.

For me:

Shelter- small 1 BR apartment with all utilities included
food- About $30/week
Health- N/A yet (see food)
Transportation- Public transportation right now.

By most people's standard I live in true frugality on about $900 a month.

My income will likely double within a few weeks but I will still live on no more than $1,100 a month even then. The rest will go to debt and savings. I've lived this way since 2003 -- when I first had to declare a Chapter 7.

[BkinTX]

I think a question that should be asked is "Why is it necessary or virtuous to live frugally?"

Certainly it may be necessary at times or for some individuals and certainly it is more virtuous than spending money one doesn't have, however, my life's goal is not to see how very little I can live on.

There is nothing inherently wrong with enjoying the fruits of one's labor, including enjoying luxuries one can reasonably afford.