Need some help bigtime-niece is being mistreated at her job

[BankruptPinoy]

Hi everyone.

I really need some help.

I do hope that someone can please advise me.

I hope that since this is the general talk section I can post this here.

My niece is 22 years old. She is Asian, being from the Philippines. She works at a university doing customer service. Her husband is a student. So her working is helping them. (She will be on probation until July, so she is afraid her boss will make things really hard on her if she complains. Now, since I have not posted 100 or more posts, I cannot post the link, but this university, for example, has been having professors sexually assaulting and abusing students, for example. And it's not been a big deal, so this is nothing, some will think, compared to some of the other things occuring on the campus.)

My husband and I raised her. So we are obviously very close.

Now, she just started working in January.

Her boss is a female, a rather large white woman in her 40s. I really think her boss is bi-polar. I've met her, and she will be nice and sweet, and crazy acting the next minute.

Sometimes she hugs my niece and tells her what great friends they are. Sometimes she pulls my niece's hair and it hurts her. Sometimes she hits her hard on the back, and then says, "Did I scare you?" And about every day she calls my niece "shorty" and laughs. My niece is 4'11".

She feels upset, and just does her job and doesn't make small talk at work with her co-workers, because she is uncomfortable at how her boss acts.

Yesterday my niece had to take a sick day, due to severe allergies, sinus problems, and asthma. She returned to work today with a doctor's note, and her boss was rude to her, and kept asking in a rude manner, "are you still SICK?" and "are you FEELING better?" Then she told my niece that there was a mandatory staff retreat next month and attendance was mandatory, unless she was SICK."

My niece has had her back pricked for allergy tests and it really hurts when her boss hits her back.

Now, my niece is afraid of retaliation and also she is Filipina, and surely you guys have read of the mistreatment of Filipina maids and hotel staff in Saudi, for example. So, for some Filipinas, it's not in their nature to immediately respond to ill treatment from their bosses. That doesn't mean that Filipinas and Filipinos will not fight back.

I know some of you guys are really nice and helpful, and it is to those members that I am really asking for your advice on how to deal with this.

I just found out about this evening, and I am so upset. Thanks for your help.

[danaf]

If it were me - I'd get a small voice-activated recorder, put it in a pocket or somewhere out of sight, and record these incidents.

Then after I had enough of them recorded, I would go to the presidents office or whoever is in charge and play it for them and tell them that if this doesn't stop - I will be finding an attorney.

Alternatively - the school might have a legal dept or a legal complaints area for the employees. And she could take the tape to them and file a complaint.

Of course make sure that she is in a state where one party recordings are legal.

Whatever the case, she should do something about this if she is truly being harassed by her superior. Just make sure she's got the gunfire when she makes the complaint.

[Flamingo]

It is not easy to prove discrimination. What your niece needs to start doing is documenting everything that occurs that she feels is creating a hostile work environment for her. Your niece also needs to make an appointment with the HR Dept., in confidence, and report this woman. You can bet this woman has other reports on her if she is as you describe. Not reporting her is allowing her to continue to abuse employees. If she retaliates against your niece for reporting her, your niece has one heck of a case.

Remember, right now it is a matter of what one said and the other said. There is no documentation or witnesses unless your niece has someone who witnessed what transpired. At this point, unless your niece wants to pursue another job, she should document any interaction with this woman where she feels uncomfortable (dates, times, locations, who was presente) and keep a journal, and she should go to HR and report what is occuring to protect herself and document that things are occurring. She should not be afraid to do that as it is usually company policy for employees to do that if there are problems in the workplace.

If it should come down to something bad as your niece getting fired, that is where the journal of incidents and her report to HR will come in handy for her. Then I recommend consulting with a Labor Law attorney as to what she should do.

Above all, she needs to protect herself from future incidences and any future retaliation from that woman. Please have her keep a log and get to HR right away.

[danaf]

Logging is all good and well but this happened to me once a long time ago. I went to everyone for help - to no avail. The only thing that helped me was that blessed tape recorder. It was undeniable proof.

[Flamingo]

Yes recording might help but it always doesn't fly unless it is monitored by professionals. Dates, times, locations and witnesses are the best and also email saving if anything is in writing. Do these occurrences occur in the area of a video camera by any chance? She needs to report it to the HR Dept.; otherwise, it will be extremely hard for her to prove anything. Reporting protects her and gives her the stand she needs for the possibility of defending herself as to any future action. I work with discrimination cases all the time - they are all different. The steps I have outlined above are what should be done and if she can record the conversations that may help or have a buddy be around the corner with a video cam hoping that something will occur at that time/moment.

Another strategy is that when she knows this woman is going to be around is to avoid her as much as possible or have a coworker present as much as possible. But you can bet this woman has been complained about before...

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I'm with Dana; logging is good, taping is golden. She can set it to voice activate and hide it in her slightly open desk drawer, or even carry it in a pocket. When she goes to HR (which is the appropriate next step) she should not tell them right away that she has the recording: she should describe what happened fully, but not share her logs or the tapes. She may actually be forbidden to record any work related conversations according to the employee handbook, and even if she's not, they will almost certainly hold it against her that she taped it. So they don't need to know that part.

After she goes to HR and complains, she will know VERY quickly if HR has any actual interest in helping her, or if they just want her to shut up and go away. If they have any interest in helping her, the behavior will stop immediately, and nothing further will need to be said.

If it continues unabated, chances are good HR never said a word about it.

If it continues and ESCALATES, HR said something, but it wasn't effective or appropriate to the situation.

If this happens, she should go back to HR a second time, preferably to the same person, and then calmly repeat the complaint as well as describe the most recent behavior. She will likely be met with some stall tactic, and that's where she should say calmly, "Okay, but I want you to understand that this is the second time I have been to HR about this, and if you fail to address the situation again, I will be forced to take other measures." She should keep it vague. The HR person may or may not press her for detail, but your niece can easily counter with, "It shouldn't matter to you what my other options are. It's your legal responsibility to ensure that I am treated with courtesy and respect, and you are failing in that. Don't worry about my options, worry about what your manager is doing for you." It's not a good idea to threaten lawsuits overtly, because they assume you won't go through with it and it's emotional grandstanding, especially (unfortunately) because it's coming from a woman. Hinting around it makes it clear that she is thinking outside their four walls (scary) and really does have other options (scarier still).

If that doesn't change things for the better, she should go ahead and see a labor atty, and email the HR representative with the information that she has decided to confer with this person/firm (give the name) and seek advice outside the university, because they refuse to help her. The whole point of seeing a labor atty is to be able to drop the name: employers get away with this behavior because they already know it takes a war chest your niece doesn't have to start a suit, and they assume she will not follow through. Naming the atty is proof that your niece IS following through and will not let the issue drop.

If that doesn't work, she needs to find another job, because even if she succeeds they're not the kind of folks she wants to be working for anyway.

That, and she needs to be taping her meetings with HR in addition to the actual mistreatment by her boss.

[epiphany]

Assuming the first goal is to make it stop and not to reap the benefits of a lawsuit I recommend the following if your niece can find it in her.

The next time she is touched, or spoken to demeaningly, she should just turn around and firmly say: If you ever touch me again (you can substitute speak to me like that again, etc), I will have you in the district office (or whatever authority figure will do the trick) so fast it will make your head spin.

Then she can just watch them squirm. Chances are it won't happen again but if it does, she should be documenting it and take it to the next step.

I've used the line twice in 20 years and rendered the offenders speechless.

Good luck to you and yours,

ep

[danaf]

epiph - good advice and at this point in my life that is exactly what I'd do - but this is a young scared girl. She needs to fight fire with fire imo.

Freshlikeadaisy has a point, HR should be her next stop. However - in my 17 years of experience, HR's are generally useless. Then again Flamingo raised a good point - if she's doing this now, she's most likely done it in the past and there may be a record of it.

But my problem with HR's is though they should be neutral, many times this isn't the case. Legal on the other hand imo almost always gets to the bottom of things and quick - and rightly so - when legal gets done with the story - people are crying at their wrongdoings. They don't care who it is - if someone is doing something wrong - that's all they need to know.

No - Fresh - while I agree with many things you write - on this one - I'd say she has a perfect right to go straight to legal when she's got enough proof. And I strongly feel this will be way more effective than going to HR first. And btw - most legal departments don't care if you go to HR first. And I edited to add that this is a very young girl and she may not be able to handle to stress of all the steps you described....another reason why she should go straight to legal when she's got the proof she needs.

Also - the question needs to be asked - how long has this woman been at this college? I would suspect at in her 40's - quite a while. And if she's doing this now, she's done it before like Famingo stated. And most likely she's been reported before. So what's the point of going to HR?

[epiphany]

epiph - good advice and at this point in my life that is exactly what I'd do - but this is a young scared girl. She needs to fight fire with fire imo.

Freshlikeadaisy has a point, HR should be her next stop. However - in my 17 years of experience, HR's are generally useless. Then again Flamingo raised a good point - if she's doing this now, she's most likely done it in the past and there may be a record of it.

But my problem with HR's is though they should be neutral, many times this isn't the case. Legal on the other hand imo almost always gets to the bottom of things and quick - and rightly so - when legal gets done with the story - people are crying at their wrongdoings. They don't care who it is - if someone is doing something wrong - that's all they need to know.

No - Fresh - while I agree with many things you write - on this one - I'd say she has a perfect right to go straight to legal when she's got enough proof. And I strongly feel this will be way more effective than going to HR first. And btw - most legal departments don't care if you go to HR first. And I edited to add that this is a very young girl and she may not be able to handle to stress of all the steps you described....another reason why she should go straight to legal when she's got the proof she needs.

Also - the question needs to be asked - how long has this woman been at this college? I would suspect at in her 40's - quite a while. And if she's doing this now, she's done it before like Famingo stated. And most likely she's been reported before. So what's the point of going to HR?

Well said Dana, but I think that would be like fighting a cigarette thrown from a moving car with a water dropping helicopter. The point should be made that one should try and stop this in its tracks before it escalates if one is able. I was 19 the first time I did that and there was no such thing as HR.

I understand that she is a scared girl, but she is a 22 year old adult and she needs to learn how to handle the unwanted advances of others, sexual or otherwise. (and this isn't sexual from what I understand) I do not believe that the "first" stop should be HR. "Second" stop absolutely.

Her aunt obviously cares about her very much and can hopefully guide her into standing up for herself. She is also married, according to the post. I am wondering what the husband thinks.

In any case, I just think that she needs to, whether she likes it or not, confront her violator before proceeding to the next step. Being coddled is not going to do her any good in the long run of her life.

I wish her all the best,

ep

[One Half Full]

Where is this University? Saudi Arabia? Most U.S. Universities are so liberal and politically correct that this sort of abuse would be unthinkable-- it sounds very odd to me, at any rate. I hope that your niece finds a way through this. If she doesn't fit and is uncomfortable, then maybe she should look for another job. A person who is in a probationary period can be let go for any reason, I have heard.

[danaf]

point well taken - but she will most likely just get fired due to the fact that she hasn't been there that long and this fat ass 40 yr old ***** will just make up excuses to HR as to her supposed insubordination for whatever reasons she can think of to let her go because she will feel threatened.

With the power of proof & legal behind her, she will learn how to stand up for herself in the future. I did. I learned the power of proof & the fear of a congressional inquiry into my command (I was in the military at the time). I won't go into the sordid story but I will say that I was harassed for a year by a woman 1 rank higher than myself and everywhere I turned, nobody would believe me. Until - that one fateful morning when I taped the ***** threatening me as she had all year long. That tape changed everything. At the time I was 23/24 yrs old - pretty young. The decision I made to tape her (and by the way, no one had suggested it to me - it was my own idea), and the outcome gave me back my confidence. No one would ever do that to me again.

[Flamingo]

While you are all giving good advice, no one is addressing the OP directly. There are steps that need and should be followed to document possible employment discrimination and a "hostile work environment." I suggest to the OP that she contact the EEOC and/or a Labor Law attorney to get further information as to state laws (they all vary) and what is required in that district to prove the above. If confronting or avoiding the person does not work, she can always leave the position if she does not want to stir the waters. HR also has certain steps that it must follow when something like this is reported. They also have to document items as to both employees. This woman herself may be building a case on the side with HR as to your neice if she does not like her or wants her fired. That is why I stated she needs to either (1) leave or (2) protect herself with an incident log, paper trail, witnesses, etc., and (3) go to HR and report HR. Many people have someone on the job like that and it can make it very hard to work there. HR has certain steps to take after an incident is reported and if this woman is already being counseled or under probation or a warning, she could get fired for continual infractions.

Best of luck to you and your niece...keep us posted!

[tinroofrusted]

Yikes!
This is not a good situation all around.

Has she actually confronted the woman and said "you need to stop touching me, and you are making me very uncomfortable with your suggestions and comments" or anything?

I understand she is in a position that she doesn't want to lose her job, but speaking up might actually shock the boss into stopping it. Plus the longer it goes on the more and more respect your niece will lose for herself.

[BankruptPinoy]

Salamat po everyone! Thank you all so very much!

I appreciate all the consideration and thoughts. Yes, I will keep you guys posted.

This is happening at the University of Georgia.

...many UGA students and workers paint a different story.

"I feel there's a culture permitted here at the university in which harassment is acceptable," graduate student Philip Lewin said.

Lewin knows several women who've been harassed at UGA, he said, but fear retaliation if they complain. "I think there's a kind of culture here that prioritizes interest like research, basically money over the well-being of students," Lewin said.

Now, the quote above is referring to sexual harassment, but there are a lot of other improper things going on there.

If you search "Harassment documents+uga" on an Internet search engine site, you can see some cases of sexual harassment.

However, this is not a sexual issue with my niece.

Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts. It really is appreciated.

[tinroofrusted]

Salamat po everyone! Thank you all so very much!

I appreciate all the consideration and thoughts. Yes, I will keep you guys posted.

This is happening at the University of Georgia.



Now, the quote above is referring to sexual harassment, but there are a lot of other improper things going on there.

If you search "Harassment documents+uga" on an Internet search engine site, you can see some cases of sexual harassment.

However, this is not a sexual issue with my niece.

Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts. It really is appreciated.

Another thought:

if the boss is doing this in front of everyone, maybe turn the tables on the boss, and really loudly say something like "You are embarassing me, and humilating me and I don't like it. And this is illegal." That might stop it in it's tracks!