Political Discussion

[backtoschool]

Thanks for the compliment(?) but I'm not a member of Mensa. My PhD in physics and career that followed is enough know my brain is working - I don't know anyone with real accomplishments in their life who would consider joining Mensa. It seems to be a cult for wannabes.

Exactly what are you whining about that was unsourced? You must be a newbie on the forum OF, as I have sourced more material than anyone else on the board - I have a reputation for sourcing my comments - unlike most of you conservatives who seldom provide any source for your lies and distortions. Is that because your source is Rush Limbaugh? You have asked twice "what is wrong with Rush Limbaugh." Are you serious?

I gave my opinion of Limbaugh in another thread (and I was holding back) and was asked for sources. I said sure that's easy - how many pages of crap you want me to source about Limbaugh. And then...the conservative moderator from NE Florida locked the thread. Guess an exposure of your hero was more than the mod could take. Double standards in the political thread are nothing new here on the BK forum.

I couldn't agree with you more in regards to mensa WhatMoney. I would NEVER join mensa.

But I have to disagree with you about why that other thread was locked. The moderator(s) locked the thread because there was a lot of name calling between bkforum members on that thread. I am no Limbaugh fan, but that thread was getting pretty personal in my opinion.

[francis]

how can anyone beleive there will be change.when everything is made in china?products from china and abroad mean no jobs for americans.how can america prosper with no jobs???

[onwards]

how can anyone beleive there will be change.when everything is made in china?products from china and abroad mean no jobs for americans.how can america prosper with no jobs???

This really is not true, you know.

Manufacturing is simply not profitable in the US anymore (as well as in many other parts of the rich world). But it's not the only sector of the economy, and in the US, it's probably one of the least important already.

Many of the new jobs will be created in services which does not necessarily mean working in Starbucks. Many others will be created in new industries, which the US is absolutely terrific in establishing exactly BECAUSE its markets are relatively unhindered (thereby allowing for more rapid and efficient redeployment of capital). Green tech is one obvious example. There is no question that manufacturing will not rise to prominence again, unless populistic pols somehow make it so, at which point the country will lose its edge even worse than it already has.

[onwards]

There is no way to avoid the hyperinflation that will occur the mid to later part of this coming decade. The Fed has monetized to much of the debt to avoid it.

Not sure about hyperinflation, but double-digit inflation for a few years is pretty likely. Not a bad thing, necessarily, as it will help us balance our national pocketbooks.

[JRScott]

This really is not true, you know.

Manufacturing is simply not profitable in the US anymore (as well as in many other parts of the rich world). But it's not the only sector of the economy, and in the US, it's probably one of the least important already.

Many of the new jobs will be created in services which does not necessarily mean working in Starbucks. Many others will be created in new industries, which the US is absolutely terrific in establishing exactly BECAUSE its markets are relatively unhindered (thereby allowing for more rapid and efficient redeployment of capital). Green tech is one obvious example. There is no question that manufacturing will not rise to prominence again, unless populistic pols somehow make it so, at which point the country will lose its edge even worse than it already has.

You're not thinking straight onwards. Without manufacturing we can't employ large numbers of people much like Europe can't. Without it we are looking at high unemployment throughout the future.

Plus jobs in the service industry service other workers mostly, as manufacturing leaves those jobs leave as well.

You can never make enough service jobs to replace the manufacturing jobs.

I pointed out one reason costs are much higher here.

We have one of the highest corporate income taxes in the world (2nd Highest I think). At the same time we have the lowest import tax of any industrialized nation. The world played us for fools and out politicians went along.

We need to revise our trade treaties or declare them null and void. Jack up our import taxes to a level more consistent with what we are charged in other nations (preferably we need to raise them to about ten times what they are today.). Then eliminate the corporate tax completely.

The other major problem is Unions. They have demanded far to high of wages and compensation for the work they do. In essence they are running the jobs away from the people they are suppose to serve. Much like your average politician your average union officer isn't interested in the members as much as fattening their own wallet or their friends/families wallets. So the people aren't served. If the unions would accept about half their current packages then you would find the manufacturing sector could recover well.

[OhioFiler]

I agree with you OF, but I was referring to the "shadow" inventory that is waiting to be put on the market, and where no taxes are being paid. In many communities this represents a significant tax base that is eroding.

Many school districts, police departments, etc are laying off due to the reduced tax base, and that is spiraling the recession in those communities.

Obama's stimulus bill saved 2 million jobs, all in the public sector.

[backtoschool]

You're not thinking straight onwards. Without manufacturing we can't employ large numbers of people much like Europe can't. Without it we are looking at high unemployment throughout the future.

Plus jobs in the service industry service other workers mostly, as manufacturing leaves those jobs leave as well.

You can never make enough service jobs to replace the manufacturing jobs.

I pointed out one reason costs are much higher here.

We have one of the highest corporate income taxes in the world (2nd Highest I think). At the same time we have the lowest import tax of any industrialized nation. The world played us for fools and out politicians went along.

We need to revise our trade treaties or declare them null and void. Jack up our import taxes to a level more consistent with what we are charged in other nations (preferably we need to raise them to about ten times what they are today.). Then eliminate the corporate tax completely.

The other major problem is Unions. They have demanded far to high of wages and compensation for the work they do. In essence they are running the jobs away from the people they are suppose to serve. Much like your average politician your average union officer isn't interested in the members as much as fattening their own wallet or their friends/families wallets. So the people aren't served. If the unions would accept about half their current packages then you would find the manufacturing sector could recover well.

I totally agree with you JRScott that the service jobs that we are creating will not replace the manufacturing jobs we have lost. First of all, the service jobs we are creating that are "Starbucks" type jobs will not be for uneducated, untrained manufacturing workers. The service jobs we are creating will require technological skills and/or lab skills that will not be provided on the job. Without schooling those that have lost manufacturing jobs will not be able to transition into these jobs.

Second of all, there will not be enough of those jobs created for years, to replace the manufacturing jobs we are losing.

Thirdly, most of the jobs will not have the pay and benefits that manufacturing jobs had. Now many would say that is a good thing, that our manufacturing workers were paid too much and that that is what cost us the manufacturing base in this country. I agree to a certain extent, but in the end, we cannot compete with slave wages in a third world country.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I do not think that replacing manufacturing jobs with McDonalds jobs, solves our long term employment problems, because low end service jobs do not provide a middle class standard of living.

[backtoschool]

Obama's stimulus bill saved 2 million jobs, all in the public sector.

I am not sure what your point is OF.

Obama's stimulus bill did save quite a few public sector jobs this year. But the fix is temporary, and the bill did not save all public sector jobs, and the downward spiral in communities that have a high rate of unemployment and foreclosure continues.

[backtoschool]

Not sure about hyperinflation, but double-digit inflation for a few years is pretty likely. Not a bad thing, necessarily, as it will help us balance our national pocketbooks.

It will be a very bad thing for the middle class and the poor whose wages are falling or who no longer have any wages. The double digit inflation we will experience will not include the wage increases that we saw in the seventies. Prices will go up in double digits but wages will stay the same or go down. This will lower the standard of living for most of the middle class and the poor.

I see that as a "bad thing".

[OhioFiler]

I am not sure what your point is OF.

Obama's stimulus bill did save quite a few public sector jobs this year. But the fix is temporary, and the bill did not save all public sector jobs, and the downward spiral in communities that have a high rate of unemployment and foreclosure continues.

Lost property tax revenue is a non-issue. Obama is determined no government employee shall lose his or her job with no concern for the private sector. While I dispute his claim of "saving" 2,000,000 jobs I believe no governmental agency really fears losing employees, especially if those employees are members of a union.

[backtoschool]

Lost property tax revenue is a non-issue. Obama is determined no government employee shall lose his or her job with no concern for the private sector. While I dispute his claim of "saving" 2,000,000 jobs I believe no governmental agency really fears losing employees, especially if those employees are members of a union.

I know that you are against government jobs and unions OF, and you are certainly against the stimulus bill, but you are continuing to miss my point.

Tell nyc which is slated to lose many teachers jobs and city jobs, that lost property tax and income tax revenue is a non-issue. Most of the times the cuts come at the local level as I said in my earlier post. Obama has nothing to do with local cuts. With lost property tax revenues and income tax revenues, states and local municipalities have no choice but to cut jobs. My sister is a teacher and her school district has seen a 30% cut in teachers jobs this year alone. Many of these teachers were tenured. Lost property tax revenue will continue to be an issue moving forward as communities do not have the revenue to provide the services that they once provided.

[OhioFiler]

I totally agree with you JRScott that the service jobs that we are creating will not replace the manufacturing jobs we have lost. First of all, the service jobs we are creating that are "Starbucks" type jobs will not be for uneducated, untrained manufacturing workers. The service jobs we are creating will require technological skills and/or lab skills that will not be provided on the job. Without schooling those that have lost manufacturing jobs will not be able to transition into these jobs.

Second of all, there will not be enough of those jobs created for years, to replace the manufacturing jobs we are losing.

Thirdly, most of the jobs will not have the pay and benefits that manufacturing jobs had. Now many would say that is a good thing, that our manufacturing workers were paid too much and that that is what cost us the manufacturing base in this country. I agree to a certain extent, but in the end, we cannot compete with slave wages in a third world country.

As I have said elsewhere in this thread, I do not think that replacing manufacturing jobs with McDonalds jobs, solves our long term employment problems, because low end service jobs do not provide a middle class standard of living.

Technology has made far more jobs obsolete than any wage issue. Do you also advocate we discard computers and return to the age of steno pools to salvage good paying jobs? We could eliminate power tools and ask all carpenters to strictly use hand tools as well. That would double the need for skilled carpenters.

Manufacturing jobs can not be replaced by fast food jobs. As more people become un- or under-employed the need for fast food workers decreases. No one out of a job can afford to buy the stuff.

Manufacturing jobs ARE created by entrepreneurs and investors, many of whom are reluctant to create such jobs because the future is uncertain. Obama is looking to increase the capital gains tax 33%. He is even planning to increase the lowest marginal tax rate 50%. This guy is hellbent on destroying our country. This is what we get for electing a banana republic, completely inexperienced Marxist as president.

[OhioFiler]

I know that you are against government jobs and unions OF, and you are certainly against the stimulus bill, but you are continuing to miss my point.

Tell nyc which is slated to lose many teachers jobs and city jobs, that lost property tax and income tax revenue is a non-issue. Most of the times the cuts come at the local level as I said in my earlier post. Obama has nothing to do with local cuts. With lost property tax revenues and income tax revenues, states and local municipalities have no choice but to cut jobs. My sister is a teacher and her school district has seen a 30% cut in teachers jobs this year alone. Many of these teachers were tenured. Lost property tax revenue will continue to be an issue moving forward as communities do not have the revenue to provide the services that they once provided.

If our educational market was a free market not controlled by bureaucrats in government offices the need to lay off good teachers would not exist. The only teachers being lost would be those deserving of said dismissal.

I hope your sister's job is safe.

[backtoschool]

Technology has made far more jobs obsolete than any wage issue. Do you also advocate we discard computers and return to the age of steno pools to salvage good paying jobs? We could eliminate power tools and ask all carpenters to strictly use hand tools as well. That would double the need for skilled carpenters.

Manufacturing jobs can not be replaced by fast food jobs. As more people become un- or under-employed the need for fast food workers decreases. No one out of a job can afford to buy the stuff.

Manufacturing jobs ARE created by entrepreneurs and investors, many of whom are reluctant to create such jobs because the future is uncertain. Obama is looking to increase the capital gains tax 33%. He is even planning to increase the lowest marginal tax rate 50%. This guy is hellbent on destroying our country. This is what we get for electing a banana republic, completely inexperienced Marxist as president.

I actually totally agree with this post except for the ranting at the end of it.

Raising corporate and capital gains taxes is very destructive to job growth.

I am not sure that fast food consumption decreases as people have less money. McDonald's stock is doing very very well.

The new jobs that technological advances are creating require training that displaced manufacturing workers are currently not getting. I agree that if we trained them, there would be new jobs for some of them in these new sectors.

[OhioFiler]

I actually totally agree with this post except for the ranting at the end of it.

Raising corporate and capital gains taxes is very destructive to job growth.

I am not sure that fast food consumption decreases as people have less money. McDonald's stock is doing very very well.

The new jobs that technological advances are creating require training that displace manufacturing workers are currently not getting. I agree that if we trained them, there would be new jobs for some of them in these new sectors.

I don't rant. That is a factual statement made with clarity.