Middle of the Night Repo and Personal Property

[Charlie777]

Camry leased from Toyota Financial 12/2007, filed BK7 8/2009 discharged 11/2009, didn't reaffirm. In April Toyota starts reporting as IIB, says they never received notice of filing (car was current throughout), although the schedule shows they were included at their credit reporting address.

I told them if they wouldn't report accurate payment status I would let them take the car (I'm discharged of the debt, they retain their security interest in it). Wrote to Executive complaints about their inaccurate credit reporting and offered to buy the vehicle - Exec Complaints rep calls, is interrupted and never calls back (july). I stopped paying after May payment (found credit reporting in May after payment was sent).

Last week the car disappeared. Yes, they repoed it, I don't have a problem with the repo but if they'd asked for the car I would have let them have it. Now the towing company claims I have to bring $25.00 cash and the key to get personal property that was in the car back. Since they have no right to the property, is making a demand like this legal in Virginia?

Toyota is trying to hide behind their double-cutout setup - they say talk to Remarketing Solutions, who arranges their repos for them. I say Toyota is responsible for the actions of their agents.

[Pandora]

$25.00 and the key... to get my personal property back? Hmm.. think I'd pay the $ as I"m sure your personal items are worth more than that. I think they're being nice - could have charged you the towing and impound fees possibly. Is it right that they repo'd it vs. you turning it in - probably not - but... for $25 - I'd pay it and be done with it.

[catleg]

Pay the $25, then put a big scratch in the car when no one's looking. :-)

[Charlie777]

I contacted and filed a complaint with the Virginia Board of Towing and Recovery Operators against the towing company. BTRO is clearly on the side of towing operators and refuses to tell me where the governing law / regulations are.

If legal (perhaps even if not clear) I would pay the fee, but I don't see why the tow operator can withold personal property they have no right to hold.

And yes, I'm angry with Toyota. The RFID key for this vehicle cost $500 to replace (I lost one within a month of buying the car) two years ago. Toyota claims the tow company isn't their agent so the tow co. has no right as I see it to demand the key. That's between Toyota and I.

[Pandora]

what does it matter if the towing company is requesting the key or not - you're not keeping the car, right? you have no intention of reclaiming it - correct?

Just pay the $25 to get your items and give them the key -or dont give them the key - at this point you dont have to give the key given they repo'd it - they can get another one from Toyota. What's the real issue here? It sounds like you're more upset because of them repo'ing the car vs. them asking for you to turn it over.

Be done with it and get your items back - its not really worth $25 is it?

[Charlie777]

The key is worth more than the property (it's an RFID fob), and you're right Pandora, I'm upset because I'm out a day's work buying a replacement vehicle, and $25.00 to replace the EZTAG (toll sensor).

Unless I'm convinced their requests are legal I'm inclined to leave the property and keep the key. After all, if getting a new key from Toyota is so easy, why is the Tow Company insisting on it?

And as long as Toyota denies the Tow Company is their agent (a particular legal nicety that holds Toyota liable for the Tow Company's actions), why is the key the Tow Company's business anyway?

So I'm really hoping someone here knows where in Virginia laws and regulations this situation might be addressed. The VA Board of Towing and Recovery Operators refuses to tell me where the legal support (or not) for the operator's position is found.

[Pandora]

Check with the Attorney General's Office on the law regarding being charged a storage fee for your personal items in your repossessed car. Some companies are allowed to charge a "storage" fee - its not an actual fee for your personal property, as that is illegal, but they get around it by charging the storage fee. I believe it also adds up on a "per day" basis.

[Charlie777]

Thanks, already posted inquiry to the AG's office. The BTRO person implied the fee is for "inventorying" the property, and since there was no notice before or after the repo storage fees are iffy. If a daily storage fee were charged it would have been $175.00 before I could find out where the car was, and I've spent $25 to get a new EZTAG, the property value is at most $300. At that ratio why bother with the property when they want the key so badly?

[Pandora]

Well - then I'd agree - if its just the key they're after, then they can get it from Toyota directly as Toyota did contract them to repo the vehicle else they wouldnt have it in their possession, right?

I guess what it comes down to is this: they cannot legally withhold your personal property from the vehicle - key or no key - if they claim its $25 to reclaim your personal property valued by you at $300 +-, then I'd pay the $25 to get my personal property back and thats it. Worse case scenario I suppose you could have a local sheriff's deputy escort you in.... but call ahead first to ensure its not an issue with the sheriff's department.

[Charlie777]

Asking police or Sheriff to accompany me crossed my mind but as a practical matter the local Sheriff is probably buddies with the towing companies, and they are across a county line so the towing company is a local constituent and I'm not. I really wanted a legal foundation before asking the local authorities.

[keepinitreal]

Camry leased from Toyota Financial 12/2007, filed BK7 8/2009 discharged 11/2009, didn't reaffirm. In April Toyota starts reporting as IIB...

I told them if they wouldn't report accurate payment status I would let them take the car ...

If you didn't assume the Camry lease, wasn't Toyota correct to report it as IIB? I think they will only report your payments to credit reporting agencies if you assume your car lease.

I realize you continued to make on-time payments, but your personal liability had been released by your bankruptcy, so that's why Toyota did not report your payments. I think that's pretty standard for mortgages and car payments.

[NoMoreCards]

If you didn't assume the Camry lease, wasn't Toyota correct to report it as IIB? I think they will only report your payments to credit reporting agencies if you assume your car lease.

I realize you continued to make on-time payments, but your personal liability had been released by your bankruptcy, so that's why Toyota did not report your payments. I think that's pretty standard for mortgages and car payments.

You are correct. Because the lease was not reaffirmed, Toyota was reporting correctly.

[Charlie777]

The reporting issue is that they made it look like I had a BK in April 2010. I contend the CRA cannot report anything related to the BK as any later than November 2009, which was the month where I obtained discharge.

I disputed with the three CRAs, along with three others who were reporting after discharge on IIB, and it moved up to June, but then EQ and EX fixed it. TU is still showing (per score from MyFico.com) I have a negative "30 days ago" as a result of the late IIB reporting. My TU FICO score is 30 points under EQ with that dating the only discernible difference.

[wnguyen]

excuse my ignorance but what's IIB?

I also hate Toyota even though my current car is from Toyota. Do I sound like a hypocrite?

[Charlie777]

IIB is the abbreviation used on Tradelines in Credit reports indicating the account was "Included in Bankruptcy". This is considered a major derogatory and shows up like a delinquency in credit scoring. Because the impact reduces over time, a report after bankruptcy discharge has the effect of looking like a more recent derogatory and so has more impact than if it were aging over time from the date of the BK.

Even worse than Toyota's reporting, I had a couple of creditors keep reporting "IIB" every month. Even with a zero balance, that looks to the scoring algorithm like a current delinquency. Those issues are fixed on EQ and EX for me, but not TU.