CU repo and collecting for full amount of loan

[Johnworker1]

I posted years ago about my Chapter 13 case where I had to repay a percentage (forgot amount) of my accounts. During the proceedings I turned in my automobile and my boat to my credit union. The car I arranged for the pick up at the house and the boat I believe the marina it was at they had them sell it. I paid off that plan (4 yrs) and when I submitted my tax returns (late) they saw an increase in wages and threw out my whole case. The creditors were quiet for a few months but after while I got served papers for judgements from that credit union so I filed again for Chapter 13 but this time 100%. I looked over the paperwork and it seemed reasonable and I noticed the credit union was not listed on it and I started that plan with a 41K amount to be paid over 39 months. On the last month I requested an audit and was told the balance was like 60K more and to talk to my attorney. I went into an emotional tail spin but found out that the credit union added that amount and the amount I agreed to was just an "estimate" and it can change. I committed to paying it all off so kept paying until a few months ago I did the research through my old paperwork as see the credit union added the full amount of the payoff of the loan for the boat, automobile and the personal loan from the time the original time of the filing of the earlier bankruptcy. The attorney seemed to say that they can add whatever amounts they see fit by inflating fees, penalties and lawyers cost. She told me to call the creditor to ask what did they sell my assets for. I called and he said it will take awhile to find he info and he would call back but he didn't. I was stumped and unfortunately at the time behind in my taxes so was not in a position to contests anything. Now I am in a better I am trying to formulate a plan on addressing this so seeking input from anyone with advice or info on this.

[despritfreya]

Johnworker1

I have read your updated posts but I am confused. How many Chapter 13 cases have you filed and over what time period? Are you currently in Chapter 13? If so, what year was it filed and how long is the Plan?

It appears that your cases are being dismissed towards the end of their cycles. If this is what is happening, this is not good as you may very well be wasting valuable resources ($$$) with no positive ending in sight.

Des.

[Johnworker1]

Johnworker1

I have read your updated posts but I am confused. How many Chapter 13 cases have you filed and over what time period? Are you currently in Chapter 13? If so, what year was it filed and how long is the Plan?

It appears that your cases are being dismissed towards the end of their cycles. If this is what is happening, this is not good as you may very well be wasting valuable resources ($$$) with no positive ending in sight.

Des.

Sorry I will work on my clarity. It seems when I get on here I can rant lol
To be clear I only had one dismissed unintentionally 8/2016 the other was when attorney directed so we could refile.

Here's a clearer timeline:

I initially filed Ch 7 in 7/2010 and was declined.

I filed Ch 13 shortly 1/2011 after and had a payment plan that was same as what I was already paying the creditors before bk. It was high and I had to work several jobs to pay it (which is why I filed in first place). Attorney responded you will pay off in 5 years and pay less interest over the life of the plan. After a year my wife lost her job and parents moved in with us so dad could get treatments so changed my situation so attorney suggested I stop paying to refile with new parameters.

I refiled Ch 13 1/2012 with a much lower percentage (maybe 6-8%) and paid the whole plan but submitted tax forms late before discharge hearing and they saw an increase in wages and threw out the case at the discharge hearing around 8/2016

I sat around upset hoping they would forget about me since I paid them off in one plan and when I got a summons for judgment so I filed Ch 13 100% around 4/2017 for 39 months.

At the 39th month (9/2020) I requested an audit and that is when I found out I had to pay more (125% of original estimate). I am still currently paying in this plan and if nothing changes I will pay 225% of the estimate.

Hope this helps

[despritfreya]

. . . I filed Ch 13 100% around 4/2017 for 39 months. At the 39th month (9/2020) I requested an audit and that is when I found out I had to pay more (125% of original estimate). I am still currently paying in this plan and if nothing changes I will pay 225% of the estimate.

You are at the 60 month mark. Are you able to complete this case? Did you file all post petition tax returns and pay what was owed? Is there anything going on now that will interfere with you obtaining your discharge?

Des.

[Johnworker1]

You are at the 60 month mark. Are you able to complete this case? Did you file all post petition tax returns and pay what was owed? Is there anything going on now that will interfere with you obtaining your discharge?

Des.

If I go by the numbers that I have given I have about 39 more payments. I filed all tax returns and am in a payment plan with the IRS. Will the payment plan hamper my bankruptcy? I can pay them off but like to keep cash on hand since I have no credit.

[Johnworker1]

I was doing more research and see the credit union filed almost 2 months after the confirmation hearing date. That is why I missed the increase in the total amount I had to pay because I already started making payments almost 3 months before they filed. I also see that the credit union listed all 3 loans (boat, car and personal) as unsecured on the National Data Center website.

[despritfreya]

Sorry, but I am not understanding the problem. I think you indicated that you were in a 100% Plan. Why? Were you trying to protect non-exempt assets or was it because your income was high enough to require payment of 100% of the unsecured debt you listed? Also, did the CU file a timely claim (on or before the claims bar date?) The claim that was filed, was it initially a "secured" claim and then amended to "unsecured" due to the return of the collateral?

Assuming you ended up in a 100% plan due to high income, your commitment period is 60 months or until such time as all allowed claims are paid in full whichever comes first. At that point the Plan ends. So, in theory, once you make the 60th Plan payment, it should be over regardless of whether or not all general unsecured claims were paid in full.

Without hands on, I really cannot come to a conclusion as to what is going on and/or what you should be doing. You really need to sit down with your attorney to figure out how the case ends with an appropriate discharge. If you have lost confidence in the attorney, maybe consult with a different one - one who, for a few bucks, will take the time to look at the docket, evaluate the entries on the docket and give you an opinion. You do not necessarily need to replace your current attorney. You just may need a "second opinion".

Des.

[Johnworker1]

It is probably becoming apparent that I am ignorant of this process and am trying to play catch up after the fact and I really APPRECIATE your efforts to enlighten me.

I am in the 100% plan because my job has forced overtime and every 4 years there is a labor dispute with no strike options (we get a retro check) coupled with yearly raises. My previous Chapter 13 I paid completely but at discharge hearing they threw it out over my increased salary so that is why I elected the 100% plan to avoid any future headaches and in a way to concede to the creditors and do the "right" thing and pay off all my debts.

In regards to the timely filing of claim I do not know other than reading the dates off of the NDC website that shows the dates of the filing (4/17) confirmation hearing (5/17) and when I look up the creditor on the website the date of their filing (7/17). I am not clear on when the claims bar date was in my case.

I do not know how to look up to see if the claim was originally a secured claim?

I do not know of a 60 month commitment period. I just did a quick google search and came up with another website that said:

"In no case may a plan provide for payments over a period longer than five years. 11 U.S.C. § 1322(d). During this time the law forbids creditors from starting or continuing collection efforts.".

I looked up 11 US COde 1322 and found a paragrapg with 5 years in it:

"4) notwithstanding any other provision of this section, may provide for less than full payment of all amounts owed for a claim entitled to priority under section 507(a)(1)(B) only if the plan provides that all of the debtor’s projected disposable income for a 5-year period beginning on the date that the first payment is due under the plan will be applied to make payments under the plan."

Does this mean that after the 60th payment the creditors can not come after me? If so how does the trustee deal with cases like this? In my paperwork it says;
Your case will be completed when all of the following conditions are met:
1. You have paid in at least (my original amount)
2. All 100% claims have been paid in full, plus any interest due
3. All monthly accural payments are met
4. Unsecured creditors have been paid at least 100% of their claimed amounts

I am going to start to look for a second opinion.

Sorry, but I am not understanding the problem. I think you indicated that you were in a 100% Plan. Why? Were you trying to protect non-exempt assets or was it because your income was high enough to require payment of 100% of the unsecured debt you listed? Also, did the CU file a timely claim (on or before the claims bar date?) The claim that was filed, was it initially a "secured" claim and then amended to "unsecured" due to the return of the collateral?

Assuming you ended up in a 100% plan due to high income, your commitment period is 60 months or until such time as all allowed claims are paid in full whichever comes first. At that point the Plan ends. So, in theory, once you make the 60th Plan payment, it should be over regardless of whether or not all general unsecured claims were paid in full.

Without hands on, I really cannot come to a conclusion as to what is going on and/or what you should be doing. You really need to sit down with your attorney to figure out how the case ends with an appropriate discharge. If you have lost confidence in the attorney, maybe consult with a different one - one who, for a few bucks, will take the time to look at the docket, evaluate the entries on the docket and give you an opinion. You do not necessarily need to replace your current attorney. You just may need a "second opinion".

Des.