top Ad Widget

Collapse

Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ch. 7 pro se, reaffirmation on auto loan with a codebtor. SO many questions!!!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    ch. 7 pro se, reaffirmation on auto loan with a codebtor. SO many questions!!!

    I am planning on filing individual chapter 7 bankruptcy next week. I have a joint auto loan on a 2006 Chevy Trailblazer with my fiancé, which is current with no late payments. My fiancé is listed on Schedule H as a co debtor. I owe about 13k on it and the replacement value per KBB is about 9600. I understand that with KBB, the retail value is based on excellent condition, which my car is def not. Although the car has some minor cosmetic, as well as mechanical issues, it’s definitely not worth the 9600, probably more like 8600. The original loan was for 16k for 54 months with a 19% APR, so after it’s all said and done, I’ll be paying through the nose if I don negotiate on the reaffirmation, or if they don’t agree, and just ride through.

    My thought process here is that I could redeem the car for around 8600, and try to get a redemption loan and go through all of those hoops and probably wind up paying a much higher APR than I am now, or I could try to negotiate through re-affirmation and try to achieve the same results, yet lowering my interest and payments while keeping the positive trade line and history of the same loan. I was thinking that I could try to negotiate re-affirmation for 8900 - 9000, for the remaining 42 mos. and try to get them to go for 10-12 % APR. Either way, they are going to get their money, however if I re-affirm at the proposed negotiated rates, they are going to still have the loan, and the collateral, and they will still continue to make more money off the interest, than they would get through redemption.

    My justification to the judge, should I have a re-affirmation hearing, is that I am already factoring into my monthly expenses my 420 / mo car payment, so it would practically be cut in half through the negotiation, allowing me to most definitely afford it, and have a little bit of money left over each month after discharge.

    My questions are:

    Since this is a joint loan, and I have a co-debtor, would she be protected under the automatic stay, once my Ch. 7 is filed?

    Once the stay is in place, am I obligated or barred from making my auto loan payment? If I do not make my payments during the stay, it is my understanding that they cannot repossess the car. Is this accurate even if I have a co-debtor?

    If I don’t continue to make payments during the stay, and if the finance company agrees to my proposed terms, can I ask the judge to approve the re-affirmation agreement contingent upon them taking the payments not made during the stay, and adding them to the end of the loan?

    I have been doing so much research and read so many different opinions. I def cannot afford to pay for an attorney and pay for the whole filing fee up front. I really need to get this filed a s a p so any and all information would be greatly appreciated.

    #2
    Originally posted by faulknertw View Post
    Since this is a joint loan, and I have a co-debtor, would she be protected under the automatic stay, once my Ch. 7 is filed?
    No, not protected.

    Originally posted by faulknertw View Post
    Once the stay is in place, am I obligated or barred from making my auto loan payment? If I do not make my payments during the stay, it is my understanding that they cannot repossess the car. Is this accurate even if I have a co-debtor?
    You can make payments (on a secured debt) if you want but if you don't they will definitely look to your fiance for payment.

    *If* they had to honor the stay (since it is a joint debt with a non-filing co-signer I am not clear on how that works), they would not have been able to repossess the car until 45 days after your 341 meeting.

    Originally posted by faulknertw View Post
    If I don’t continue to make payments during the stay, and if the finance company agrees to my proposed terms, can I ask the judge to approve the re-affirmation agreement contingent upon them taking the payments not made during the stay, and adding them to the end of the loan?
    I am 99.9% certain that the bank won't agree to any changes - they have your fiance on the hook to pay the full contract amount due.

    Personally, I would not reaffirm the loan - I would just help your fiance make the payments to pay it off.

    Did you do any "free consultations" with local BK attorneys? Even if you are filing ProSe you can get some of your questions answered like the ones you had above. I hope others can come and give you more info or clarify my answers.

    In your other thread, it was mentioned for you to make sure that you wait the full 8 years and a day and to file after 08/05.

    Good luck!
    Last edited by ValleYum; 08-03-2013, 12:51 AM.
    ~~ Filed Over Median Income Chapter 7: 12/17/2010 ~~ 341 Held: 1/12/2011 ~~ Discharged: 03/16/2011 ~~
    Not an attorney - just an opinionated woman.

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks for your response, and information. I filed on August 5, 2005 so if I file on August 6, I should be okay right?
      According to the information that you gave me, if I continue to make the payments on the loan after I file, would they really have any gain or benefit by repossessing the car after the 45 days have lapsed post 341 meeting? If I'm understanding you correctly when reccomend to help my fiance make the payments until its paid off, they shouldn't repossess the vehicle? Would this be the same or similar to a ride through? I dont know if in the state of Ohio they permit that or not. Im pretty solid on all of the other aspects of filing pro se, with the exception of thia joint loan, and codebtor issue .....

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by faulknertw View Post
        Thanks for your response, and information. I filed on August 5, 2005 so if I file on August 6, I should be okay right?
        According to the information that you gave me, if I continue to make the payments on the loan after I file, would they really have any gain or benefit by repossessing the car after the 45 days have lapsed post 341 meeting? If I'm understanding you correctly when reccomend to help my fiance make the payments until its paid off, they shouldn't repossess the vehicle? Would this be the same or similar to a ride through? I dont know if in the state of Ohio they permit that or not. Im pretty solid on all of the other aspects of filing pro se, with the exception of thia joint loan, and codebtor issue .....
        Yeah, I am hoping someone else will chime in on the co-debtor issue for extra clarity - weekends are slow around here so it may be Monday before you get some other input. I don't think the 45-day time frame regarding repossession will apply to you since you have a non-filing co-signer.

        But if you don't want to destroy your fiance's credit (or she doesn't want to file a CH 7 in the near future) make the car payments on time throughout the entire bankruptcy and beyond until the vehicle is paid off. You probably won't hear from the lender but I am sure your fiance will get a letter or notice from them telling her she is now solely responsible for the debt.

        Essentially, when you are a co-signer on a loan and file CH 7 BK and the other co-signer does not; it is as if someone 'erases' your name from the contract and only the co-signer (who did not file the CH 7) remains. The finance company will now deal only with them about payment on the account.

        As long as the vehicle's payments remain current, nothing *should* damage your fiance's credit and therefore the bank would not repo the vehicle (they can't unless she is in default). As always, keep an eye on her credit report to make sure there is nothing derogatory placed there as a result of your BK - shouldn't happen but hey! you never know.

        RE: filing date: I would wait even a day or 2 past the 6th - but I am a wuss like that LOL. You are 100% sure of your filing date in 2005?
        ~~ Filed Over Median Income Chapter 7: 12/17/2010 ~~ 341 Held: 1/12/2011 ~~ Discharged: 03/16/2011 ~~
        Not an attorney - just an opinionated woman.

        Comment


          #5
          I'll chime in. But our situation isn't exactly the same, either.

          My DH co-signed a car loan for an acquaintance that was 'down on his luck.' 'Hub's credit was 'gold' and the acquaintance's was in the toilet. That was a stupid move on 'Hub's part; but he is that way--always trying to help someone 'down on his luck.'

          All was well as long as this guy made his payments, which he did for about a year and a half. Then he started being late, and then missing payments altogether.

          When WE started getting dunning notices, 'Hub went to this guy to find out what was up. 'Hub got a sob story, and to make a long story short, told 'Hub that he just didn't have the money to make the payments, and wasn't going to try. 'Hub made him surrender the car, and we arranged to have it picked up.

          We were going to have to file BK anyway for other reasons, and this was just one more nail in the coffin. Both the acquaintance and 'Hub were sued by the loan company for the difference between what was owed on the car, and what it sold for at auction. This figure was a little over 13K.

          We filed CH7, and listed this guy as a non-filing co-debtor. Our responsibility for the debt was discharged.

          The acquaintance never did anything about it ("I ain't got money to file bankruptcy", when we suggested he file). He ignored the court summons for the lawsuit, and now has a default judgment on his name for 13K.
          Last edited by AngelinaCat; 08-04-2013, 05:55 AM.
          "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

          "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by ValleYum View Post
            But if you don't want to destroy your fiance's credit (or she doesn't want to file a CH 7 in the near future) make the car payments on time throughout the entire bankruptcy and beyond until the vehicle is paid off. You probably won't hear from the lender but I am sure your fiance will get a letter or notice from them telling her she is now solely responsible for the debt.
            Yes, she will be notified.

            Originally posted by ValleYum View Post
            RE: filing date: I would wait even a day or 2 past the 6th - but I am a wuss like that LOL. You are 100% sure of your filing date in 2005?
            I would wait a couple of weeks at least, or until September 1 would be even better. I am one that worries about a single typo screwing up everything. Here you would be dealing with two August filing dates....

            Good luck to you.
            "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

            "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by faulknertw View Post
              I am planning on filing individual chapter 7 bankruptcy next week. I have a joint auto loan on a 2006 Chevy Trailblazer with my fiancé, which is current with no late payments. My fiancé is listed on Schedule H as a co debtor. I owe about 13k on it and the replacement value per KBB is about 9600. I understand that with KBB, the retail value is based on excellent condition, which my car is def not. Although the car has some minor cosmetic, as well as mechanical issues, it’s definitely not worth the 9600, probably more like 8600.
              When we had to give valuations for our cars, we went with KBB, and two other companies--I don't remember the names--and averaged the three together. There were variations as much as 1K. Then we took those figures to a local used car dealer, that we know and trust, and got his recommendations for our local area.

              We kept this documentation just in case the trustee questioned them, but the trustee did not.
              "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

              "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

              Comment


                #8
                I am not an expert on this by any means, but I just saw a post on another forum, and it appears the 4 years between filing may start with discharge, not filing, in some states. The post was answered by Des, so it does have credibility.

                I don't know 'which states.'

                Comment


                  #9
                  I have to NOLO book, and have been reading every single website i can find dealing with bankruptcy but i cant seem to find anything specific to the state of Ohio and whether or not they go by the filing date or discharge date, specifically, however everything i have read indicates that the time frame for filing another ch. 7 bk seems to be measured by filing dates. I think im going to try to get a free consulation from a local attorney this week. Just to be on the safe side. Mostly since there seems to be so many differing opinions on the matter. I certainly appreciated everyone's responses thus far.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Also LadyInTheRed posted on another thread I have about installment payments, and she said that I have to wait ubtil 8-5-13 before I can file again, based on my original Ch.7 filing on 8-5-05. Anyone know if theres a minimum famount of money that you have to pay on your first payment when filing if I do the installmemt payment's?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I still would give it one day past 08/05/13.
                      ~~ Filed Over Median Income Chapter 7: 12/17/2010 ~~ 341 Held: 1/12/2011 ~~ Discharged: 03/16/2011 ~~
                      Not an attorney - just an opinionated woman.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        And I would still recommend filing on the first possible day in September, which is Monday, Seotember 2.
                        "To go bravely forward is to invite a miracle."

                        "Worry is the darkroom where negatives are formed."

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Meet chicken and chickener, LOL!
                          ~~ Filed Over Median Income Chapter 7: 12/17/2010 ~~ 341 Held: 1/12/2011 ~~ Discharged: 03/16/2011 ~~
                          Not an attorney - just an opinionated woman.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Pjmax View Post
                            I am not an expert on this by any means, but I just saw a post on another forum, and it appears the 4 years between filing may start with discharge, not filing, in some states. The post was answered by Des, so it does have credibility.

                            I don't know 'which states.'
                            I suspect that was an old post. In researching this, I did find one mention of a court in Michigan who ruled it was from the discharge date. But, that ruling was overturned by the district court. Also, that post must be about getting a Chap 13 after a previous Chap 7 discharge, which is a different section of the bankruptcy code. That's where 4 years come in. But, it is 4 years from filing.

                            The Section of the Code about a Chap 7 discharge after a previous Chap 7 discharge is pretty clear:

                            (a) The court shall grant the debtor a discharge, unless—

                            (8) the debtor has been granted a discharge under this section, under section 1141 of this title, or under section 14, 371, or 476 of the Bankruptcy Act, in a case commenced within 8 years before the date of the filing of the petition;
                            11 USC § 727

                            A detailed discussion of time limits between bankruptcy is in the PDF at http://www.abiworld.org/CBIP/cbip-ho...rny_Issues.pdf

                            I agree that waiting a few days or even until September is a safe thing to do. What's the rush that can't wait another few days?
                            LadyInTheRed is in the black!
                            Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
                            $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Yes, LIR, the post I was referring to was a 7 to 13.

                              Comment

                              bottom Ad Widget

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X