questioning my decision to go Pro Se

[JustFileSuit]

[QUOTE=tigergem;362678]

And keep my mouth shut except for "Yes Sir" and "No Sir".

I tend to talk a lot when I am nervous, so I will have to pay special attention to that last one.

Yup, that is the BIGGIE that pro se filers have to really learn. Just stick to the Question and just Answer the Question, only the Question, and stay away from tangential issues. You don't want to open up a can of worms. - If they don't ask, you don't volunteer.

Now, just to set the overall record straight: some massive number, probably around 85%, of Ch 13 petitions "fail." The Trustees are wise to this and they only get paid if the Plan actually is Confirmed and you make payments, so they are not much enthused by Ch 13 petitions. Mostly the fail because: (1) the "Plan" is unrealistic and does not have enough income in it to support the Plan payments; or (2) they "fail" because down the road the debtor gets into a bind and drops the payment ball. So remember: you "can" do it, "but" you have to be disciplined! If you are disciplined, then you will succeed. You go, Girl!

And remember, you have to start making those payment in short order even before the Plan is confirmed, so start sending in those remittances to the Trustee in accordance with your proposed Plan so you don't get off on the wrong track. (Double-check on the Start Date).

[tigergem]

tigergem;362646]

Ha! Love it! OK everybody, it's "SISTER" to tigergem!!!

And I ain't no nun either.

[tigergem]

[QUOTE=JustFileSuit;362797]

Yup, that is the BIGGIE that pro se filers have to really learn. Just stick to the Question and just Answer the Question, only the Question, and stay away from tangential issues. You don't want to open up a can of worms. - If they don't ask, you don't volunteer.

Now, just to set the overall record straight: some massive number, probably around 85%, of Ch 13 petitions "fail." The Trustees are wise to this and they only get paid if the Plan actually is Confirmed and you make payments, so they are not much enthused by Ch 13 petitions. Mostly the fail because: (1) the "Plan" is unrealistic and does not have enough income in it to support the Plan payments; or (2) they "fail" because down the road the debtor gets into a bind and drops the payment ball. So remember: you "can" do it, "but" you have to be disciplined! If you are disciplined, then you will succeed. You go, Girl!

And remember, you have to start making those payment in short order even before the Plan is confirmed, so start sending in those remittances to the Trustee in accordance with your proposed Plan so you don't get off on the wrong track. (Double-check on the Start Date).

I already sent my first payment in. It wasn't due until the end of the month, but they are showing it already credited to my account. I am wondering though... would it be ok to hand carry my second payment to my 341 meeting and give it to the trustee instead of mailing it? I can pay it on that day with no problem.

[JustFileSuit]

[QUOTE=tigergem;362803]

would it be ok to hand carry my second payment to my 341 meeting and give it to the trustee instead of mailing it?

Short answer: Sure. Typically by certified check or Money Order; check with the trustee for the protocols. Hint: make a photocopy of the Item, and have the trustee "receipt" by signing off on the photocopy. If it gets lost, you don't want to get into a big hassle.

[tigergem]

I'm so tired of paying certified mail fees. I haven't called the social security administration yet to ask if they will even make the payment directly from my social security check. That is on my after Christmas TO DO list.

[justbroke]

Short answer: Sure. Typically by certified check or Money Order; check with the trustee for the protocols. Hint: make a photocopy of the Item, and have the trustee "receipt" by signing off on the photocopy. If it gets lost, you don't want to get into a big hassle.

This is Trustee/District specific. Most Trustee do not allow you to make payments at the 341 Meeting and never accept any sort of payment in their office. For example, the Region 21 USTrequires all payments be sent to a lockbox in Tennessee and doesn't want them in their offices or at any 341 Meeting or court hearing. Too much trouble with saying "I gave it to so-and-so".

[tigergem]

Yeah I am kinda prepared to be told "no" he won't take it from me at the 341. And I understand the reasoning for it. Processing. Yeah. Everything you say makes perfect sense. But if he asks me if I have any questions... that is when I will ask him if he will take it. I am hoping I get some kind of pro se brownie points by having the 2nd payment presentable nearly a month early, even if I end up having to mail it anyway.

[JustFileSuit]

Fees in 13 must go to Lock-Box!

The reason they have gone to the lock-box in Tennessee format is that there were some cases of appointed Trustees in Ch 13 cases just taking the money and running off with it So now yoou have this lock-box protocol. Sorry, my previous post was inaccurate; I had confused with this the quarterly payments to the UST for Ch 11 cases. Yes, Just-Broke is correct, these Ch 13 payments have to go to that lockbox. And it is especially unfair in that if the payment gets lost in the mail then it is YOUR headache, not the trustee's, and then if you do not have the funds to replace them then your case can get bombed out. So you have to carefully photocopy and inventory everything you do. Personally, for a Ch 13 Trustee payment, I would use a postal money order, photocopy it, and then send the MO off by mails. And yes, you have to "eat" the certified mails fees. Unfair? Of course.

Your Ch 13 Trustee cannot accept the payments. New rules.

[justbroke]

It is especially unfair, and I hate the lock box. It's too bad that people were writing their checks to Jane Doe, Trustee, and Jane Doe was summarily cashing the checks for her own purpose.

There are some Districts/Trustees that require your attorney to hold all your payments until confirmation... in escrow. Still, others actually want the first payment at the 341 Meeting. However, those are the minority Districts/Trustees. Nothing hurts to ask what the protocol is for your District/Trustee.

[JustFileSuit]

t is especially unfair, and I hate the lock box. It's too bad that people were writing their checks to Jane Doe, Trustee, and Jane Doe was summarily cashing the checks for her own purpose.

There are some Districts/Trustees that require your attorney to hold all your payments until confirmation... in escrow.

Still, others actually want the first payment at the 341 Meeting. However, those are the minority Districts/Trustees. Nothing hurts to ask what the protocol is for your District/Trustee.

Unfortunately, there are attorneys that have gotten in to money trouble and start dipping into those escrow funds. That is the NO. 1 cause for disbarment proceedings. Sad but true. And NO, you are not protected from the trustee if you deposited the funds with the atty; only if you did so by Court Order. More sadness.

[tigergem]

My first payment was due before my 341 meeting date, so I had to mail it in. When I called to ask when it was due they told me 1/3, but the "New Debtor" letter they sent said 28 days after filing. I know it was paid way early. I feel better paying ahead whenever I can in case something happens... well you know... anything could happen.

I just think the whole thing you guys have described is ironic and flabbergasting. Attorneys and trustees making off with the money. That's just over the top! Here I am busting my behind to be honest in my filing down to the penny and I am so paranoid about making a mistake that might be construed as fraud somehow, and then read THAT... o. my. lord. That is just too much.

I wish they would use pay.gov. It sure would be easier to just do it electronically. I went through pay.gov web site and apparently they don't actually have a huge user base on the government agency side. Maybe it just hasn't caught on yet.

[JustFileSuit]

[QUOTE=tigergem;363424]

I feel better paying ahead whenever I can in case something happens...

Good thinking, "Sis!" And be sure to photocopy everything and have a contemporaneous paper trail, with signatures for receipts. And anything you file in Court, be sure to have the Clerk time-stamp a photocopy. And carefully preserve all that stuff. You would be surprised how things can get screwed up if a document gets misplaced within the Court or trustee system.

I just think the whole thing you guys have described is ironic and flabbergasting. Attorneys and trustees making off with the money. That's just over the top!

Yup. Not very friendly. Tends to give the practice of law a bad name. Also corrodes the integrity of the Courts, and does noting to inspire confidence. Meanwhile you take the hit.

I wish they would use pay.gov. It sure would be easier to just do it electronically.

Good thinking! Write a Letter to the Court Administrator. They probably just had not thought of it. Courts are like that.

Stick with it, British-style (stiff upper lip...). You'll get through it all soon enough. Best to you.

[tigergem]

Yeah it was pretty weird that my local bankruptcy rules actually stated that after the 1st of December they were going to start taking debit cards for payment of the filing fees, but when I tried to actually do it, they told me they couldn't.

[tigergem]

hee! My email and response re: pay.gov

to [email protected]

Can you please explain to me why the Federal Bankruptcy Court and Federal Bankruptcy Trustee systems don't implement the use of pay.gov for court fees and trustee payments?

The archane method of mailing money orders by certified mail is so expensive and inefficient! Do you think you could persuade them to step into the digital age?

Thanks for your time and attention and best wishes to you for the New Year!

Their response!

I have forwarded this e-mail to the Treasury Department. They work with
the agencies to convert them over to Pay.gov. Thank you for the praise
for our system.

Sincerely,

Dan Roberts
eGOV Customer Service

Maybe there is hope.