Filling US-bankruptcy from Germany

[Robin710]

Hello BK forum

The situation is as it follows: I am a dual citizen, US-american an German, who lives in Germany. As I went through some personal problems in 2008 I accumulated so much debt on my american credit cards, that in 2008/2009 all my creditors cancelled the credit card contracts. I know that basicly my only option is to file bankruptcy.
I dont know though, how to do that from Germany at a US-Bankruptcy Court. Is that even possible without beeing an american resident?
I already contacted a few laywers . One said that I can file at a Wisconsin Bankruptcy court and that a mailing adress in Wisconsin is enough. The other one said that I have to be a resident for at least 6 month. Both didnt want to represent my case because it is supposedly to complicated.


Does anybody have experience or advice on filling a Chapter 7 bankruptcy case from Germany.

[Drazil65]

Hi and welcome, I guess the first thing I would say is that there are residency requirements when it comes to filing bankruptcy. I think that would be your starting point when it came to talking with an attorney. If you have not done so already your first step will be to contact and have a (maybe skype??) phone consult with an attorney here. How long have you been in Germany? Do you own any property here or have a lease somewhere? I also believe (???) that the US does not recognize dual citizenship from a United States point of view so I do not know how that plays into this whole thing. Good Luck

[Robin710]

Hi Drazil, thank you for your answer!

"I already contacted a few laywers . One said that I can file at a Wisconsin Bankruptcy court and that a mailing adress in Wisconsin is enough. The other one said that I have to be a resident for at least 6 month " So I am confused.
I grew up in Germany. I had been a resident of Wisconsin for some time though. Right now I live in Germany.
As I am still a student, I neither own any property, nor do I have any assets.
The US does not recognize dual citizenship but tolerates it, as far as I know.

Robin

[keepmine]

If yiu have no assets or property, why even try and file a complicated {expensive} bk at this time.
If you intend to return to the US at some point, file when you return.

[Robin710]

This is a very good point - we also thought about it.

The only thing is, that there was allready a small court claim filed for part of the money. So they have a judgement against me. Right now that is not a real problem because I dont have any assets or property that they could seize, neither in Germany nor in the US. But: I will graduate in January and hopefully find a job soon after that. So we thought, that it would maybe be a good thought to get rid of the debt before that.
The question is, could they also seize property or assets in Germany? This is where it gets really complicated.

[AngelinaCatHub]

This is a very good point - we also thought about it.

The only thing is, that there was allready a small court claim filed for part of the money. So they have a judgement against me. Right now that is not a real problem because I dont have any assets or property that they could seize, neither in Germany nor in the US. But: I will graduate in January and hopefully find a job soon after that. So we thought, that it would maybe be a good thought to get rid of the debt before that.
The question is, could they also seize property or assets in Germany? This is where it gets really complicated.

It may be possible to seize property in Germany, but it would be a very troublesome action. I suppose it would be what property and what it is worth. They would have the same trouble as you do by going across German law and US law. They would have to appear at some sort of hearing I assume, in the German Courts. It probably would not be worth the efforts. 'Hub

[kornellred]

Even if you were to somehow manage to file for bankruptcy in the United States while residing in Germany, you would still have to physically attend the 341 meeting of the creditors. That would cost you more than filing for bankruptcy.

[Robin710]

Even if you were to somehow manage to file for bankruptcy in the United States while residing in Germany, you would still have to physically attend the 341 meeting of the creditors. That would cost you more than filing for bankruptcy.

As far as I know, you can do that also by telephone if you are bounded by some reason. In my case that would be my studies here in Germany.

[keepsmiling]

I think your life would be much simpler if you just finished your studies and dealt with bk when you return.
There is no benefit to rushing into it and it's not like you will suddenly have assets upon your return. You will have to pay to vacate the judgment against you regardless of when you file.
You also don't need the distraction while you are trying to finish your schooling.
Best of luck!

[LadyInTheRed]

11 USC § 109 - Who may be a debtor
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of this section, only a person that resides or has a domicile, a place of business, or property in the United States, or a municipality, may be a debtor under this title.

You have no property in the US and do not reside in the US. Do you have a domicile in the US? The bankruptcy code doesn't define domicile and there could be some case law about it. But, here's Black's Law Dictionary's definition: http://thelawdictionary.org/domicile/. Basically, it is a permanent place that you always plan to return. The fact that you once lived in WI doesn't seem to me to satisfy that definition. If your parents live in the US and you plan to always return there, perhaps that is your domicile. For a better answer on that question, you might try asking the attorney who said your case is too complicated if he knows an attorney who he can refer you to who could handle it.

I don't know if a US creditor can collect property and garnish income in Germany. The best way to find out is to ask a German attorney. If they can, they would probably have to go to court in Germany to have the US judgment recognized there. There would have to be a lot of money involved to make that worth the trouble.

I agree with the others that you should wait until you are in the US to think about BK. It doesn't sound like you know when that will be. It is possible that time will take care of things before you are back in the US.

[Robin710]

Thanks to everybody for answering!

As my wife and my parents live in Germany at the moment I do not intend to return at the moment. I also dont think that there is that much money involved in the case, that it would be worth for the creditor to garnish income in Germany. At least not without knowing if there is even enough money to garnish to make the effort worth it. So I probably could just sit the whole thing out.
On the other hand I might get problems if I "had" temporarily return to the US on a business trip etc.
I dont have a domicile in the US, just a "mailing adress", I have a couple bucks in my American bank account though. Maybe that is considered "property"?

[LadyInTheRed]

There is nothing a creditor can do to you in the length of a business trip. If they get a default judgment against you while you are out of the country, they will be able to get what is in that bank account. So, keep your cash out of the US.