Job Loss, underwater mortgage, SCHOOL, and 401K

[cin]

Thanks Valle ... yes I will be sure to cover my butt with the tax issue. I've always been pretty anal about trying to think things through so there are no surprises later (financially). Unfortunately I wasn't prepared to get screwed by xxxx University (School of Medicine) in Boston after working there for 30 years. I know life kicks you in the ass WAY more than any of us are prepared for, but I honestly thought I would always have job security and retire from there. Now at age 53, with no degree, I will be competing against 20-something year olds for a job. Guess who will be hired? Actually they advertised my job for 25K less per year and I heard they had 40 applicants, and that was over a month ago. The GOOD thing, "maybe", and a BIG "maybe", is they had to put the job on hold for now ....

[tobee43]

ahhhhhh yes, Valle is so correct on the tax issue.

again, i would NOT use my 401 for school, now that you are unemployed the STATE employment agencies usually have programs that can HELP YOU PAY for that 15k you need to get back into school. OR, i know the last thing you would like to do is take out a student loan, however, if you still have your 401 intacted and at a later date cannot pay back the loan, then you can think about dipping into your retirement monies. but, until then i with everyone else, find another way out to pay for school. now a days many of the unemployment offices help you get the funding etc. and it's through the state or federal programs for re-training. certain, worth a look, wouldn't you say.

again, i would look also into the loan mod to keep the house if that's what you want to do, but always rememember never reaffirm your mortgage when filing your bk, it's the "golden" des rule of bk

[kawh]

Great advice, tobee. And cin should feel no scruples whatsoever about taking advantage of all legal ways to preserve her retirement savings, since she had no way to prevent her employer from taking advantage of all the legal loopholes designed to help them cut costs by firing older workers.

[cin]

Thanks tobee and kawh. Yes they have all the legal loopholes except ONE .... My manager (let's call her X) was in her early 60' and retiring, and we were friends, along with my other co-worker who is one of my BEST friends (I got her the job). They didn't realize that we all had each other's back. X gave eight month's notice and at TEN months, with no new hire, she was approached about their plan to "eliminate" my position. She said "leave me out of it" .... she'd stayed longer than planned and would not help them. So the big-wig Dean of Finance and fat-cat *******s decided to go ahead without even KNOWING my job responsibilities .... so I got a great lawyer and the more they scramble to backtrack on their mistakes, the more mistakes they are making. For instance -- saying the Dean would sit in on my job interview (I HAD to apply for legal reasons) .... my Chairman saying IN WRITING that I wasn't qualified in the accounting areas they would need new person to be responsible for. But the job description they posted only listed ONE area of accounting -- the system I created 14 years ago .... Anyways, after 40 people applied for my job, it is now on hold .... and my lawyer is talking to their lawyer. I had to laugh though ... did the Dean want to personally see how fast I type? Did he do that with the other 40 people? I can't prove age discrimination, but they f***ed me so so bad, if I can return the favor I will do it with pleasure.

Vent over ... what were we talking about? LOL ...

God I wish I was at least learning something from this that I could pass on to the rest of you .... but legally we have no rights. If my manager hadn't told them to shove it, she would have given them details on EVERY aspect of my job, and they wouldn't have made any mistakes.

[lillymarlene]

. Otherwise I will be back in an office, with NO degree, competing with an 18 year old fresh out of high school. I was making 57K ... this was in Boston though, and the salaries are high.

Cin, I sure understand that. I'm around 60 years old, and lost my business location because of the terrrible economy, a landlord that refused to work with me, etc. I've been in a chapter 13 for about 1 3/4 years. I'm basically surving from sales from my web site and eBay, and my boyfriend's contributions. I've also just started (hopefully it will keep it going) temp work.

I have people in my life that just don't understand, making comments to me like, well you have a college degree and you know things from where you've spent the last 30 years. Problem is so don't a lot of people, and many of them are a lot younger.

I wish you well and think you're doing the right thing. Healthcare employment is definitely the way to go.

[cin]

Thanks Lillymarlene. I'm so so sorry to hear you lost your business. I plan to go to Blue Hills Regional for my LPN license. I see you are from Massachusetts as well. I live South of Boston .... Anyways, it's true people never seem to understand ANYTHING unless they've been through it. I guess the world has lost the meaning of "empathy". You know, once I lose my condo, I wonder if there are actually any decent mobile home parks I could move to? There's a disgusting one in Easton -- yeck -- but it seems like something worth looking into. There was a time it would be considered stupid since you don't own the and, but who knows how far down the housing market will go? When we have a guy running or president who said "Corporations are people, my friend", you know we might potentially be in a worse place in six more months ....

[lillymarlene]

cin, I'm south of Boston, too. Maybe we can get together for a cuppa sometime. I've even thought of those (worst case scenario) mobile home parks. I just hope it doesn't come to that.

As I said, probably healthcare is the way to go, and you're on the right track. I have a friend who is an R.N. (didn't get her R.N. until she was past 60) trouble is it takes too long, and like you noticed, at that level the field seems to be satuated. I've even thought of things myself, like becoming a home healthcare aid... doing something that was secure, would pay enough, and that I could get started in quickly.

[cin]

The LPN program is 10 months. My problem is I have the 15K I need for tuition, but ... it would knock me off unemployment, AND I probably couldn't do the bankruptcy. I have to figure a way to do this because othewise I don't have much of a future to look forward to. Even if I COULD get an office job, I could easily be right back where I am today on the whim of some a-hole CEO. There HAS to be a way .....

I talked to a guy I know today who told me about a "self-directed 401K" ... he says it would bypass unemployment, I could pay tuition with it .. lots more research to do. I am getting oh so tired though ....

I live in Stoughton, by the way

[lillymarlene]

The LPN program is 10 months. My problem is I have the 15K I need for tuition, but ... it would knock me off unemployment, AND I probably couldn't do the bankruptcy. I have to figure a way to do this because othewise I don't have much of a future to look forward to. Even if I COULD get an office job, I could easily be right back where I am today on the whim of some a-hole CEO. There HAS to be a way .....

I talked to a guy I know today who told me about a "self-directed 401K" ... he says it would bypass unemployment, I could pay tuition with it .. lots more research to do. I am getting oh so tired though ....

The school you're considering is excellent. My ex-husband went to highschool there, and got a great job right after graduation. It's a shame you can't get unemployment while you retrain, but possibly there is a way of bypassing it. Maybe some other people on this board here have experience with that.

[cin]

Lilymarlene, if you are thinking of becoming a "CNA", the pay is only around 29K, and there is a LOT of physical work involved (rolling patients over, putting them into chairs, etc) ..... But you can get on-the-job training .... not sure what kind of money you are looking for.

[lillymarlene]

Lilymarlene, if you are thinking of becoming a "CNA", the pay is only around 29K, and there is a LOT of physical work involved (rolling patients over, putting them into chairs, etc) ..... But you can get on-the-job training .... not sure what kind of money you are looking for.

Yeah, you're right, probably a little too strenuous at this stage of the game However, I do know somebody, a relative actually who worked as a home healthcare aid. (She didn't seem all that athletic.) I'll have to talk her, and see exactly what her job entailed.

[keepsmiling]

I think home health care aides are notoriously underpaid.

[cin]

UPDATE: Well after really thinking long and hard, I realize that emotionally I can't handle going to school AND foreclosing on my condo at the same time. I am just barely hanging on emotionally already -- once I decided that this is NOT the time to add something else to what I am dealing with now, I felt relieved. I worked in an office at a major university in Boston, and moved up over 30 years from Secretary, Staff Assistant, then Program Coordinator. I type about 150 wpm. The market is incredibly tight here in Massachusetts, I can't make anywhere CLOSE to 56K again, but I found a few leads for State jobs. So that's where I'm concentrating right now. There were a few good office jobs in a few Departments of Corrections places ... I would be happy to NEVER commute to Boston again.

Okay here's what I'm thinking now .... I paid my September mortgage, but that HAS to be the last one. I don't think I should apply for any load modifcations yet .. There is a great site called Loan Safe, and a thread called "The Hamster Wheel". Basically it helps give you ideas on how to stay in your home as long as possible. I guess that's going to be my first step. BK is up in the air as I filed a discrimination suit against my employer -- and can't lose that in BK ... My cc is about 7K. I would love to discharge it, but we will see. My second mortgage is 100% underwater (about 45k) so I hope the bank works with me later when I DO apply for a loan mod. If they stripped the second mortgage, I would try to save the condo. Can someone explain if that would be "reaffirming" the mortgage? I am confused about that term.

Thanks everyone for the good advice and support. This has been absolutely horrible. I was in a 10 year relationship, which ended just over 5 years ago. I have never felt so alone -- and so freaking scared -- in my life. If I found a decent job, and then stopped paying the mortgage, I'd feel so much better about things. ..... Unemployment will kick in Oct 22, and it will be the first time I've been on it. I'm not saying that in a "proud way", but more that I don't know how much it really helps ...

Cindy

[cin]

To be clear, I cannot file bankruptcy UNTIL my case against my employer is settled .... but I CAN stop paying my mortgage. I don't really have any assets ... 12 year old car, under water mortgage .... owe 7K in credit card .... Can anyone tell me how far back the trustee looks into your bank account? Because if I win some money (may 20K if I am lucky), I need to deposit and spend it up .... My impression is it's 6 months (Massachusetts), and since I don't have much, I doubt they'd do more than a cursory look .. but I don't want to mess up now .. I'm trying to prepare. Thanks again!!