Exemptions and taking inventory of property?

[Diesel73L]

I never thought I'd say this, but thank god we have no equity in our house. At last glance its worth about $220K and we owe just over $230K. Since federal exemptions are available to us this means that we have $20,250 ($10,125 unused homestead exemption doubled) on top of all of the other exemptions doubled, we should have more than enough to protect both vehicles, our wedding rings, and most if not all of our personal property. Here is where I'm unclear though-the NOLO book talks about how you must be scrupulously honest with the trustee and that even a non malicious error could result in the dismissal of your case. That being said, how does one make sure that all personal property is accounted for and properly valued? The book does mention that "yard sale pricing" was acceptable prior to 2005, but that as a result of that legislation values of items come under much more scrutiny now. Let me give a few examples of what I'm unsure about:

-We actually possess four television sets-sounds like a lot right? One is an old school "big screen" (circa de 1990s) with woodgrain paneling and that weird screen with the lines in it. We got it free from a friend who had it sitting in his basement unused for 10+ years. I did a search on the 'net for similar items and found one Craigslist ad in the free section. Does that mean it has no value? Of the other free TVs, one was found in the garbage, and two were TVs that came from our rooms when we were still living at home-I paid $200 for mine with paper route money in 1996-I doubt you give a 19" tube TV away these days.

-We have beautiful oak end tables, with glass tops-from the trash! No idea who makes them or where to find a comparable set to value. Our kitchen table, chairs, more than a few other accent pieces of furniture, riding mower, generator, and snowblower all came from the trash.

-My wife and I have drinking glasses that we got for our wedding from her mother. They're from Macy's and I'm sure they have some value, but we have an old cast iron sink and four of five of them have been broken while doing dishes-how do you value that?

The bottom line here is that we want to be 150% honest with the trustee about what we have and what it's worth, but for a lot of our stuff that's a lot easier said than done. Can someone walk me through their experience post 2005 of doing inventory on their possessions and how it all worked out? I'm not worried that we don't have enough exemptions, I'm worried about being accused of lying or trying to hide property, or the value of property from the trustee.

[disconapper]

I was unsure how to value my property as well. My attorney used the yard sale prices. For example, about clothes, we were discussing work clothes, I didn't know how to help him figure it out, he said..."Well, my shirt costs $40 but at a yard sale, I'd get 5 cents for it...."

For electronics and so forth he went cheap as well, I don't have much, just an older rebuilt computer, and a couple small other things, I think he wrote $200 maybe for the electronics if that.

Bottom line, to help address your question....if the Trustee were to take your belongings, which I think would be highly unlikely, he would auction them from what I understand and at an auction he's not gonna get much money if any...so I think you are safe with yard sale prices.

As far as stuff you got for free...I'm sure someone else will chime in with what to do about that. I agree, 150% honest is the best way....

[tobee43]

I was unsure how to value my property as well. My attorney used the yard sale prices. For example, about clothes, we were discussing work clothes, I didn't know how to help him figure it out, he said..."Well, my shirt costs $40 but at a yard sale, I'd get 5 cents for it...."

For electronics and so forth he went cheap as well, I don't have much, just an older rebuilt computer, and a couple small other things, I think he wrote $200 maybe for the electronics if that.

Bottom line, to help address your question....if the Trustee were to take your belongings, which I think would be highly unlikely, he would auction them from what I understand and at an auction he's not gonna get much money if any...so I think you are safe with yard sale prices.

As far as stuff you got for free...I'm sure someone else will chime in with what to do about that. I agree, 150% honest is the best way....

we didn't really have to worry about it, since we sold everything prior to our move, we needed all our money to make the move into another state ...then went "underground" for two years to be able to file under this states exemptions. if we had stayed i nj we would have chosen to go federal and not nj state...

however, after two years we did have a few things, but our atty did advise us to use disconapper's atty's advise, yard sale value, as everything we purchased really was aquired at yard sales at that time, so it wasn't far from the actual truth.

[keepsmiling]

Hey Diesel, another NJ filer-to-be here. We have now spoken to four attorneys and have been assured that you will not have to worry about this kind of stuff. Two who are trustees both said we don't have to itemize but can claim that there are no items worth more than $500 and total possible earnings at a huge garage sale. Your stuff sounds like ours- everything comes from trash, yard sales and thrift shops unless it's many years old- our 19" Sony was an engagement gift and we are having our silver anniversary this year. We've accumulated a ton of it over the years tho- our house could BE a thrift shop lol- so I was very relieved to hear that, since itemizing everything would be an overwhelming task. I swear if/when we ever move I want to just leave it all behind... it's going to be a nightmare.... dh and I have actually kidded that we'd love to tell the tt it's worth a fortune and he should take everything to save us the hassle rofl!

Would love to stay on top of your adventure as there isn't a huge amount of NJ info posted here. PM me if you like. Good luck to all of us in this pricy state.

[catleg]

Personal property valuations rarely get any serious scrutiny in NJ.
Most people have used furniture and stuff that isn't worth a lot.
It's only a few places, notably Central District of Florida, that get nit picky.
That's probably because Fla has a reputation as a bankruptcy haven (thanks to Bowie Kuhn and a few other notable cases).
So unless you're someone like that chick on Real Housewives of NJ it's probably going to be ok.

[PANSYFACE]

This is so similar to my situation - we also have TONS of "stuff" that is either ancient, broken or obsolete. I decided to inventory one room just to see how it would go - I still am using my bedroom furniture that I bought before I was married (37 years) in various rooms of the house. Our TV was my deceased mother-in-laws from the 1990s - 19 inch big tube! and it is the only one we have, we never did well at keeping up with the jones. Our old cars -checked on Craigs List - started at 3700 and I think sold at 2400. We have retained our attorney and paid in full - just trying to get things in order before we can file. Maybe we can keep this as a New Jersey thread - we will use Federal exemptions because NJ is ridiculous!

[ValleYum]

@Diesel73L:

Federal exemptions were last adjusted April 1, 2010 - they adjust every 3 years and many sites have out-of-date figures.

The federal wild-card based on the unused portion of your homestead exemption amount is now $10,825 (doubled if filing jointly with spouse).

There is a federal jewelry exemption of $1,450 (doubled if filing jointly with spouse) that you can each use on your rings before the wild-card is applied (if necessary).

On household goods, as long as one item doesn't exceed $550 - it can be covered by 11 USC § 522 (d)(3) the federal exemption that covers: animals, crops, clothing, appliances, books, furnishings, household goods and musical instruments up to a total of $11,525 (doubled if filing jointly with spouse). To feel honest about pricing my stuff for our federal exemptions, we went to several yard sales, an estate auction and to Goodwill's retail store here locally. It was fun and helped me feel better about pricing my items fairly.

You'd probably have to PAY someone to get rid of the old big screen television! We had to pay someone to dispose of our old TV and computer monitors.

Just remember that large federal wild-card from your unused portion of your homestead, can be "stacked" on top of another existing exemption. So, first use the specific exemption, then the wild-card. If there is no specific exemption, of course you'd use the wild-card to protect your asset.

Also, there is a "true" wild-card exemption in the federal exemption set of $1150 (doubled if filing jointly with spouse) in addition to the other one previously mentioned. Every exemption dollar helps!

Not from NJ - but I did file with the federal exemption set and I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night (haha!) YMMV so always check with your lawyer.

[Diesel73L]

Thanks for the responses all-this makes me feel a lot more at ease about our "stuff." I honestly don't think that there is any one item in our home that could honestly be valued at more than $550 (besides our vehicles of course). The only thing I could see coming close is our sofa, loveseat, and ottoman set, but even then, they're two years old and while they're still in good shape, they're not in brand new condition by any means. I was afraid of BK for a long time because I believed the myths and thought that I would come through it with not only no debts, but no place to live, no belongings, no transportation, etc... Clearly not the case.

[debee]

The only thing I could see coming close is our sofa, loveseat, and ottoman set ...

Don't think of them as a "set" with one price. They are three different articles with three individual prices.

[enuffznuff]

Could you get $500 for that at a yard sale? HIGHLY doubt it. Our stuff just isn't worth what we think it is!!! ;)

[sunshinepa]

You would be lucky to get 100.00 for that furniture. Here in PA I have seen sofa, loveseat and matching chair go at a auction for 25.00 and they looked brand new. Even at the yard sales, you see all 3 pieces for about 75.00. You will be fine using your allowed exemptions.

[StartinOver]

When I was asked the value of out stuff, the attorney said use yardsale prices. There's a TON of used stuff being offered by people who have already lost their homes trying to squeeze into apartments, either cheap or free at the last minute when they have to be OUT of their places. I described the house (number and type of rooms, square footage) so he'd have a sense of the scope of our lifestyle - mostly furnished about 13 years ago, so the newest anything is is about 10 to 12 years, except a behemoth 55 inch widescreen projection tv. Can't give these darned things away, it's awkward, bulky, and heavy. Everything else we either already had, or bought or scrounged and reworked it ourselves. He ballparked numbers for "furniture" and "electronics" and then when we were close to making our filing I did an "inventory" and applied Salvation Army's donation receipt value list to the stuff and/or looked at craigslist and noted if this item was being offered free or for whatever small money we saw listed in NH or nearby MA. Attorney was spot on with the total valuation for our stuff and he was WAG-ing it based on the general description of the house, and our social status as to what class of furnishings we could afford new to begin with. And it was all well within our exemptions (Federal, NH still has livestock and woodpiles, sewing machines and sides of beef or pork on its exemption list!)