Dave Ramsey...

[JEM]

I've read a few older posts here about him. I've listened to him off and on occasionally for a few years.

Now that we've made the decision to file bankruptcy soon, I've found myself less able to "tolerate" his show. Maybe because I'm carrying some guilt, or maybe because he's SOOOO against people filing. (Even though he has himself in the the past)

Today I was listening for a bit while I was waiting in the carpool line to pick up the kids. There was a lady that called regarding her IL's. She said they were retired, the FIL was collecting a teacher's pension. If I understood correctly she said they brought in $45K. They were $80K in CC debt. About $35-40K upside down in their home.

They had spoke with a BK attorney that she said told them to get a newer vehicle. Which they did. Dave went nuts over that. (Of course)

He told her they were NOT bankrupt. That the wife needs to get a job making $40K a year, they need to trim down $20K off their lifestyle and they could get this taken care of in a year or two.

Ummm. Ok.

I like SOME of his advice, I guess that's why I still listen. Once we file and this is all past us, we will definitely be using some of his tools. Especially the emergency funds, and probably the envelope system for awhile. And no more CC's . (*Possibly* a secured card or a SMALL SMALL card for rebuilding)

Anyway, I just hate listening when he has people calling up thinking about BK and he just rips into them telling them they are NOT bankrupt and to go out and work 3 jobs, and deliver pizzas to earn an extra $1500/mo. And mow lawns to earn another $500/mo., meanwhile continue at your current FT job.

That just doesn't work all the time. And certainly not for everyone.

And even more so when your CC's have ratejacked you to 29.99% and your min. payment barely makes a dent in the balance.

*sigh*

[SMinGA]

I can relate. I don't care for the judgemental stuff, and you have to put up with it to get the good stuff.

My theory on BK and what leads to it: 1 of 2 scenarios. There is the 'life happens' scenario, where things go wrong that a person can't control. Job loss, illness, etc. And there is the 'I screwed up' sector. Poor financial decisions, living for today and disregarding tomorrow. For each person in finanical turmoil/contemplating bankruptcy - there story is somewhere on a line between 1 and 2. They may be closer to 1 or closer to 2, but they are somewhere in between. Its not up to me (or anyone else) to judge.

As for getting extra jobs - I am not against that. Within reason of course. I started looking for a 2nd job last spring (needed to get income up to be able to file ch. 13, not eligible for 7) after 6 months found one delivering pizzas @ night. Its a pretty good side job, where I am at least. Not $1500 a month, but better than making minimum wage standing at a cash register for 4-5 hours every night. So I work full time & part time. Hubby officially works part time - but its 7 nights a week, about 4-5 hours each night. And he sleeps when the kids are in school, is home with them in the afternoons so no daycare $. Summer is rough on him, but we'll make it thru. It works. For now. In another 2 years or so we hope he can get a better paying/full time day job. By then the kids will be old enough to stay on their own w/ my son to babysit. Until then I'm ok w/ working 2 jobs. (Did it once before, for about 3 years.)

[NewPage]

Yeah, I read one of his books, and just didn't find his advice applicable to *our* life at all. We don't have any "toys" (snowmobiles, boats, etc) to sell, we need a second vehicle here (rural area, no public transportation), we have just one house, and selling it so that we could turn around and rent something would be stupid. We could not rent for what our house payment is, even with the HELOC pymt included, and don't have enough equity to make selling matter.

Perhaps if we had started out living Dave's way it would be a different story, but we didn't. So now BK it is.

[JEM]

I agree, definitely not against working 2 jobs. I did it years ago when I was a single mom with a small child.

Hubby's job currently makes them get "permission" to take on a second job because of the hours he work and what he does. He must be fully "alert" when he is at work.

I was working PT--during the day while the kids were in school or in the evening when hubby was at home. But I was let go because they wanted me to work hours I couldn't.

Anyway, I do get where he is coming from. But he gives one size fits all advice that doesn't ALWAYS work for everyone.

[JEM]

Yeah, I read one of his books, and just didn't find his advice applicable to *our* life at all. We don't have any "toys" (snowmobiles, boats, etc) to sell, we need a second vehicle here (rural area, no public transportation), we have just one house, and selling it so that we could turn around and rent something would be stupid. We could not rent for what our house payment is, even with the HELOC pymt included, and don't have enough equity to make selling matter.

Perhaps if we had started out living Dave's way it would be a different story, but we didn't. So now BK it is.

This is us. We don't have toys to sell. Renting would probably be more than our house payment. We have to have two cars (only 1 of which has a car payment of $250--the other is owned outright), unless I want to wake the kids up at 3am to take hubby to work. That's not really healthy for small kids that have to turn around and go to school in a few hours.

[SMinGA]

We have made do on 1 car from time to time, out of necessity. (One down and no $ to do anything about it.) But its hard - and there is not always family/friends available to pick up the parent @ home to take the child to the doctor, etc. And the other parent taking time off work for those things becomes a liability since you can only take off so much time from work before it becomes an issue...

We are in the same situation NewPage on our house. We did consider the possibility of letting it go, for the purpose of thinking every option thru. But to rent elsewhere we *might* pay rent that was $75-100 less than our mortgage. And there is no guarantee of that. The cost of moving just does not make sense. I do fear there will come a day when there is too much work to be done to sell our house and we end up stuck without options - but I figure we'll have 5 years protection that we can modify our plan to let the house go, no strings attached.

[flyinbroke]

A lot of the people in his books are 6 digit salaried people with too many toys and maybe 30-40K in CC debt (compared to their 130K in salary, this is nothing.) Dave's methods worked for them because they had expensive toys to sell and a huge income. Most people on this board are not C-level execs with too many playthings.

Dave did not use the methods to bail himself out though; he filed BK. So how does he reeeeallllly know his plan works? (He has good ideas, everyone should have an emergency savings above all.)

[frogger]

I want to call him up when discharged and scream:

"We're debt free"!!!

Ya think he would appreciate that?

[ForumReader]

I want to call him up when discharged and scream:

"We're debt free"!!!

Ya think he would appreciate that?

That sums it all--I am not a big fan of Ramsey, but he has some good ideas such as building up an emergency fund.

[JEM]

I want to call him up when discharged and scream:

"We're debt free"!!!

Ya think he would appreciate that?

Haha! That would be funny!!

[Overmihead]

We have used the envelope system for a while...before we got into this mess. And I really, really liked it and plan to go back to it. I always felt in control...I knew right where we were at, financially. I knew how much money was left for groceries for the rest of the month. It was pretty easy to stay on track. But then, that was when we had *money* to put in the envelopes. LOL
And yes, I agree, it is hard to listen to advice aimed at the 6-figure incomes with too many toys. I used to hate it also when Oprah would have her shows about people in financial trouble and they would turn their situation around by going 8 weeks instead of 6 between haircuts (I get a trim once every year or so), longer between manicures (puhleeeeez!), cutting down on stops at Starbucks (insert eyerolling smiley here), fewer vacations, etc.
I'm not saying everyone can go a year between haircuts and those in debt should never have starbucks or vacations or whatever. It's just that all of their corners to cut were never part of the picture for us. Oh well, I'm sure those tidbits are helpful to somebody.

[tigergem]

We have used the envelope system for a while...before we got into this mess. And I really, really liked it and plan to go back to it. I always felt in control...I knew right where we were at, financially. I knew how much money was left for groceries for the rest of the month. It was pretty easy to stay on track. But then, that was when we had *money* to put in the envelopes. LOL
And yes, I agree, it is hard to listen to advice aimed at the 6-figure incomes with too many toys. I used to hate it also when Oprah would have her shows about people in financial trouble and they would turn their situation around by going 8 weeks instead of 6 between haircuts (I get a trim once every year or so), longer between manicures (puhleeeeez!), cutting down on stops at Starbucks (insert eyerolling smiley here), fewer vacations, etc.
I'm not saying everyone can go a year between haircuts and those in debt should never have starbucks or vacations or whatever. It's just that all of their corners to cut were never part of the picture for us. Oh well, I'm sure those tidbits are helpful to somebody.

Kinda makes me think sometimes, that maybe the Has group should take a year of lessons from the Have-nots before they can earn their permit to go forth whining.

[Faust]

We have used the envelope system for a while...before we got into this mess. And I really, really liked it and plan to go back to it. I always felt in control...I knew right where we were at, financially. I knew how much money was left for groceries for the rest of the month. It was pretty easy to stay on track. But then, that was when we had *money* to put in the envelopes. LOL
And yes, I agree, it is hard to listen to advice aimed at the 6-figure incomes with too many toys. I used to hate it also when Oprah would have her shows about people in financial trouble and they would turn their situation around by going 8 weeks instead of 6 between haircuts (I get a trim once every year or so), longer between manicures (puhleeeeez!), cutting down on stops at Starbucks (insert eyerolling smiley here), fewer vacations, etc.
I'm not saying everyone can go a year between haircuts and those in debt should never have starbucks or vacations or whatever. It's just that all of their corners to cut were never part of the picture for us. Oh well, I'm sure those tidbits are helpful to somebody.

Oh come on now! You and your family don't need to eat all that food. And you guys could ride a bus then rollerblade the rest of the way to work. Your kids need to pull their weight too, they could sew tshirts after school until midnight.

I bet you could save a TON of money doing that!

[JEM]

Oh come on now! You and your family don't need to eat all that food. And you guys could ride a bus then rollerblade the rest of the way to work. Your kids need to pull their weight too, they could sew tshirts in after school until midnight.

I bet you could save a TON of money doing that!

Haha! I know, sometimes I find his advice not very realistic. I mean, like I said, some of it is good, but as someone above mentioned to have to listen to all the criticisms of BK to get to any of the good stuff.

[blessed]

The "JUST go get a second or third job" advice is hardly relevant right now. With barely 2 columns in the help wanted section of the newspaper a first job is hard to come by!

Also, if either my husband or I took in a second job there would inevitably be an increase in childcare, work clothes, gas money and possibly lunch expenses. Why on earth would I incur more expenses to net $30-40 a month? Stupidity.