Just had initial consultation - Didn't go as planned

[coopersmydog]

Just got home from the initial consultation with the lawyer. It didn't go quite as planned. To begin with the paralegal that we met with first was really unprofessional and rude. Then my world was turned upside down.

Basically the attorney told me I'd have to file chapter 13. It was my understanding that if I had no disposable income, using the standard expense allowances, then I could file chapter 7, even if I'm above the median income.

She basically told me that the standard expenses don't matter, it's your actual expenses. I asked her what happens if my actual expenses are greater than my income. She then went into the long ordeal about how 100% of cases with incomes above the median get sent to the US attorney, and she complained about how much work this is for her.

Then when I turned the conversation into a chapter 13 discussion, her attitude completely changed. She was much more helpful and willing to answer my questions.

So my questions are:

1. How can I actually determine if I can qualify for a chapter 7 with an income above the median.

2. Do 100% of cases that are ch7 above the median go the US trustee. If so, does that matter.

3. When estimating my actual expenses, how do I estimate things like food, clothing, vehicle expenses when I don't track that stuff. I was under the impression that I could simply use the IRS standards for expenses.

Thanks in advance.

[ready2puke]

Oh Man run like hell...I hope you didnt give them any money. They make more with a 13 than they do with a 7...keep on truckin

[StartingOver08]

Oh Man run like hell...I hope you didnt give them any money. They make more with a 13 than they do with a 7...keep on truckin

Exactly RIGHT! Do not go with this attorney!

[coopersmydog]

No worries, it was a free consult. Regardless of the feedback I get, I will not be using the attorney. Her and her staff were rude and unprofessional.

Anyway, what about the questions? I'm very confused now.

[Flowers]

I was going down the road for a chapter 13, at my insistence. THe lawyer wanted me to do a t chapter 7. But she stayed on the road I wanted.

After doing all the numbers, she was unable to eek out any kind available monthly payment from the income I have on a monthly basis.

We then switched to the Chapter 7.
Hope that helps.

[JRScott]

Just got home from the initial consultation with the lawyer. It didn't go quite as planned. To begin with the paralegal that we met with first was really unprofessional and rude. Then my world was turned upside down.

Basically the attorney told me I'd have to file chapter 13. It was my understanding that if I had no disposable income, using the standard expense allowances, then I could file chapter 7, even if I'm above the median income.

She basically told me that the standard expenses don't matter, it's your actual expenses. I asked her what happens if my actual expenses are greater than my income. She then went into the long ordeal about how 100% of cases with incomes above the median get sent to the US attorney, and she complained about how much work this is for her.

Then when I turned the conversation into a chapter 13 discussion, her attitude completely changed. She was much more helpful and willing to answer my questions.

So my questions are:

1. How can I actually determine if I can qualify for a chapter 7 with an income above the median.

2. Do 100% of cases that are ch7 above the median go the US trustee. If so, does that matter.

3. When estimating my actual expenses, how do I estimate things like food, clothing, vehicle expenses when I don't track that stuff. I was under the impression that I could simply use the IRS standards for expenses.

Thanks in advance.

You will need a lawyer willing to fight for you, the one you saw is not so don't use them.

1. Use your expenses/income and do the means test.

2. Yes this part is true. However this does not mean that you'll have any more trouble depends on how solid your case is.

3. Start tracking it now. When do you plan to file?

Best thing figure out what you spend on food a week, then multiply by 4
Same thing for gas.

If you have a yearly heating oil bill dig it out and divide by 12. That's how much it is per month.
Do the same for property taxes.
Do the same for tag renewal.

Since it will be reviewed by the UST then make sure you can reasonably show your expenses are as high as you claim. Particularly be ready to prove any claimed expense that exceeds the IRS numbers.

[yeahdischarged]

You need a different lawyer!! We saw 4, and 3 told us mandatory ch. 13. But we had no money!! Our 4th lawyer looked at our case, took a deep breath, and said "Let's roll". It was a hellish experience - not quite as bad as others on here, but so bad I won't give all the details as to freak everyone out. It was BAD.

We were over the median quite a bit, had recently moved states, absolutely barracuda nightmare trustee who was out for blood and not stopping until she found some, endured a UST audit because our debt was over $100,000 and we had nothing to show for it (basically lol), and then finally we ended up going before the judge and becoming case law in our state. We won, thankfully. We were switched from a No Asset to an Asset case for 6 months, then when we "won", switched back to No Asset and closed 6 months after discharge.

Had we gone with a weeny attorney, or a bankruptcy mill type attorney, we would have been s c r e w e d. We told the truth, we had no money, but we were over the means. We had job losses and medical crises/expenses up the wazoo that continue today. Yes, there looked like a lot of money on paper, but it did not exist. We were able to prove it, painstakingly, but we won.

And now our names will forever be more famous as pretty important case law in our former state. Great. lol Lawyer was happy for the recognition, though! And the trustee got her rear SLAMMED by the judges decision. It was a mixed emotion day - happy to be done, but so worn out we almost couldn't think straight. lol

[danaf]

There have been a few on here who were over income but still did a 7. Cali is the most recent that comes to mind. Start tracking your expenses and leave nothing out....like car ins., car maintanance, car tags, what you pay for haircuts and how often....charity or tithing.

For people who never budgeted, you'd be surprised where your money goes when you do finally figure out your budget. My numbers were pretty darn close to the IRS numbers. For example food - I put $528 per month which was the IRS number with no issues.. Housekeeping supplies at $60, apparal and services at $155, Personal Care at $53, misc at $165. The IRS numbers are very helpful and people do go over them in their schedules. Just guestimate if you aren't sure. Put your car loan and student loans down too.

You also get to deduct everything from your paycheck such as 401k, medical, dental, taxes....ect. Have you seen what the actual schedule I & J looks like?

If you do your monthly budget and you come out with no disposable income or under $100 disposable, then you should be fine in a 7. Having or not having disposable is the key.

These greedy 13 attorneys get on my nerves.

[anime-chicka]

Definitely look into another lawyer. Shop around. It is possible to file Ch.7 and be above median.

With my husbands income taken into account, I'm 9,000 over median and have no disposable income at the end of the month (I think it was something like -254 or something thereabouts). My case did go before the US Trustee, but because there was only one creditor who said anything, and didn't show for the 341, my case was pretty much cut and dried. My PACER currently has me listed as awaiting discharge, and I'll have to submit my tax return info, something I'm still not sure how I'm going to go about it, but I'll figure it out when the time comes.

As long as you don't have a lot (and when we did the inventory of our house, we found out we didn't really have all that much),I think you'll be okay.

[StartingOver08]

I too have filed CH 7 and was above the median income including my husbands income (over the median by $70k). However the monthly disposable income ended up being negative $579.66

The US Trustee was at my hearing by phone and the hearing was continued, but the case was determined to be a no asset CH 7 and today 1/2/2009 is the last day for objections. There were no creditors that showed to my 341 (either of the hearings - had two!). I am expecting to be discharged next week per the original plan.

Although I had to supply tons of backup paperwork to my attorney because he wanted to be ready in case there was an objection, the overall process was very smooth. There were no objections. I attribute the success of my CH 7 to my attorney who knew what to expect and how to handle it so there would be no objections. A good attorney is worth their weight in gold when you are over the median income.

[CatsInTrouble]

"It was my understanding that if I had no disposable income, using the standard expense allowances, then I could file chapter 7, even if I'm above the median income.

She basically told me that the standard expenses don't matter, it's your actual expenses. I asked her what happens if my actual expenses are greater than my income. She then went into the long ordeal about how 100% of cases with incomes above the median get sent to the US attorney, and she complained about how much work this is for her."

While I would go with the aggregated experiences above, I still wanted to tell you that I've seen many lawwyer's blogs say this exact same thing- it's a tough road- tough for a reason- and many are not willing to take it.

My lawyer said the exact same thing- if we're over the median, switch to a 13, cause it's not worth the fight. Luckily we're not.

[StartingOver08]

]"While I would go with the aggregated experiences above, I still wanted to tell you that I've seen many lawwyer's blogs say this exact same thing- it's a tough road- tough for a reason- and many are not willing to take it.

My lawyer said the exact same thing- if we're over the median, switch to a 13, cause it's not worth the fight. Luckily we're not[/B].

All I can respond to this is...Not worth the fight to whom???! It certainly is worth it to me and I would not deal with an attorney that gave up before he started!

[Intoodeep80]

Oh Man run like hell...I hope you didnt give them any money. They make more with a 13 than they do with a 7...keep on truckin

I couldnt agree more ... RUN!

Dont listen to anything they said, they are obviously lazy and greedy. Find a good lawyer upon recommendation, research the lawyer (googling always turned up a few things for me when I was searching) and go with them.

[banca rotta]

Just got home from the initial consultation with the lawyer. It didn't go quite as planned. To begin with the paralegal that we met with first was really unprofessional and rude. Then my world was turned upside down.

Basically the attorney told me I'd have to file chapter 13. It was my understanding that if I had no disposable income, using the standard expense allowances, then I could file chapter 7, even if I'm above the median income.

She basically told me that the standard expenses don't matter, it's your actual expenses. I asked her what happens if my actual expenses are greater than my income. She then went into the long ordeal about how 100% of cases with incomes above the median get sent to the US attorney, and she complained about how much work this is for her.

Then when I turned the conversation into a chapter 13 discussion, her attitude completely changed. She was much more helpful and willing to answer my questions.

So my questions are:

1. How can I actually determine if I can qualify for a chapter 7 with an income above the median.

2. Do 100% of cases that are ch7 above the median go the US trustee. If so, does that matter.

3. When estimating my actual expenses, how do I estimate things like food, clothing, vehicle expenses when I don't track that stuff. I was under the impression that I could simply use the IRS standards for expenses.

Thanks in advance.

Not true what she said!

Do increase your actual expenses such as insurance, etc.

Do not hire this law firm!!!

[HHM]

Ok, sorry to say about the previous posts, but there is a lot of misinformation going around.

Your attonrey is correct in two regars

1. Even if you pass the means tests, if your Actual expenses exceed your income, you will still be forced into a chap. 13

2. And yes, if you are over the median income, the UST will look at your case.