Fed up with Lawyers!!!!

[BD33]

Hi Gang,

I am just about to explode! I have met with four lawyers now and have no better idea of where things stand than I did before. All of them tell me"You shouldn't have NO problem filing for a 7" I dont trust any of them, none of them really have ran a true means test. I am right on the border or over the median income. I trust people here more than I do them, so I would like to give my quick scenario and see if anyone thinks I should proceed with a 7

Flip Home in another state been in default since May 2006, becuase co-borrower(business partner,friend) quit paying his half. Two sets of bad renters, last renters tore up the house pretty bad "Realtor said it is Unsellable" Judment granted to Plantiff, 6-24-08.
Jan-Feb was laidoff due to company cutbacks. March got new job.
Past Income $51,000 (1)
Current Income $39,000 (1)
State Median $36,380 (1)
Avg Gross Mnth $ 3,250
State Median $ 3,032
Avg Net Mnth $ 2,577
Current Expenses $ 2,900 (Includes $571 per month for credit cards)

Legal consumer.com says I pass if I file this month or next. I have been told that a trustee would look at current income and put me in a 13, becuase the IRS deductions only allows $2,348.00.
$3,250 - $2,348 = $902 left over according to the calculator. Which is Gross, I never see $902, the goverment sees it, but I dont. I see negative every month.

Lost in Gross Miscalculations.....

[soleprop]

Current Expenses $ 2,900 (Includes $571 per month for credit cards)

this is an issue. i don't think you can include payments to credit cards that you will be including in your bk when you calculate your expenses for schedule J. by law, all creditors need to be included in the bk. if the credit card payments are installments against assets you'd like to keep and you intend to reaffirm the debt, then the NOLO book says you can include those under 'Installment payments' on the schedule.

the NOLO book on CH7 says this on p. 178:

Do not put payments you have been making on a credit card or other debt that does not involve collateral and that you plan to discharge in your bankruptcy.

because you're not getting the info you want from the attorneys, i'd advise flipping through the NOLO CH7 Bankruptcy book. it has pretty clear information on how the means test is calculated, how the schedules get filled out, has examples, has worksheets, has sample forms, etc.

[Help!]

Hi Gang,

I am just about to explode! I have met with four lawyers now and have no better idea of where things stand than I did before. All of them tell me"You shouldn't have NO problem filing for a 7" I dont trust any of them, none of them really have ran a true means test. I am right on the border or over the median income. I trust people here more than I do them, so I would like to give my quick scenario and see if anyone thinks I should proceed with a 7

Flip Home in another state been in default since May 2006, becuase co-borrower(business partner,friend) quit paying his half. Two sets of bad renters, last renters tore up the house pretty bad "Realtor said it is Unsellable" Judment granted to Plantiff, 6-24-08.
Jan-Feb was laidoff due to company cutbacks. March got new job.
Past Income $51,000 (1)
Current Income $39,000 (1)
State Median $36,380 (1)
Avg Gross Mnth $ 3,250
State Median $ 3,032
Avg Net Mnth $ 2,577
Current Expenses $ 2,900 (Includes $571 per month for credit cards)

Legal consumer.com says I pass if I file this month or next. I have been told that a trustee would look at current income and put me in a 13, becuase the IRS deductions only allows $2,348.00.
$3,250 - $2,348 = $902 left over according to the calculator. Which is Gross, I never see $902, the goverment sees it, but I dont. I see negative every month.

Lost in Gross Miscalculations.....

Yes, no problem "filing" Ch. 7... actually getting discharged is another story! I know your frustration, and if I had known then what I know now I would have filed pro se. I ended up doing all the work in our case anyway... nearly every time our attorney got more involved in our case things got worse.

If I were you, I'd download the actual means test form and do the math. If you don't understand something, ask on the forum and there are many who can help. You're the one who is ultimately held responsible for what you file and the one who will be affected by the outcome. You might consider doing the petition on your own and just paying the lawyer to file it (if you can find one that doesn't make your skin crawl).

[danaf]

- Current Expenses $ 2,900 (Includes $571 per month for credit cards) -

Not sure if this will be an issue for you. Have you thought of every conceivable possible expense? You need to come up with $248 more in expenses. Have you considered expenses paid once a yr like car tax? What about car insurance? Have you looked at the us trustees website to see what is allowable for food & car maintenance per month (which you can use max)? And what about gas? Clothing, haircuts, extra medical expenses? I know when I first started out, there were many more expenses than I realized. It's easy to be oblivious when you are using credit.

You are not that far over the median. I think if you do some more research you may find real allowable expenses for that $248 per month that you haven't even realized. If you file - you want to be at zero disposable or under. And idealy, not over $50-75 in disposable.

If you are over median - one thing for sure - do not lower the taxes you pay out monthly. That will screw you on the means test.

And while the Nolo book is good - it does not give examples for everyone's scenario so in addition I'd advise really thumbing through this site as well or others. I think there is one out there called creditboards or something though not sure how good they are.

That's my 2 cents.

[justplaintired]

- Current Expenses $ 2,900 (Includes $571 per month for credit cards) -

Not sure if this will be an issue for you. Have you thought of every conceivable possible expense? You need to come up with $248 more in expenses. Have you considered expenses paid once a yr like car tax? What about car insurance? Have you looked at the us trustees website to see what is allowable for food & car maintenance per month (which you can use max)? And what about gas? Clothing, haircuts, extra medical expenses? I know when I first started out, there were many more expenses than I realized. It's easy to be oblivious when you are using credit.

You are not that far over the median. I think if you do some more research you may find real allowable expenses for that $248 per month that you haven't even realized. If you file - you want to be at zero disposable or under. And idealy, not over $50-75 in disposable.

If you are over median - one thing for sure - do not lower the taxes you pay out monthly. That will screw you on the means test.

And while the Nolo book is good - it does not give examples for everyone's scenario so in addition I'd advise really thumbing through this site as well or others. I think there is one out there called creditboards or something though not sure how good they are.

That's my 2 cents.

Yes I think you need to review your expenses and keep in mind a good attorney will help you alot with this. I worried about living expenses, but now I know why our attorney said we'd be fine. Don't forget any expense that's allowed, budget in so much for care repairs, car registration, insurance, gifts for holidays, newspaper subscriptions. You can find lots of info on this forum about your living expenses, and I think you'll be surprised once those cc are gone just exactly what it cost to live. You are very close to the median and I think if you do some research you'll find you have under estimated you living expenses.