I know this is wrong but has anyone else...?

[ltrain823]

Before you read this please understand that I am a very good person and I never look for bad intentions to happen by any means although I'm sure what I'm about to ask is going to make you judge. This is pure desperation.

My company recently moved me from a retail position to a corporate hq position. My company provides uniforms for all retail positions but now I have to to start coming to work dressed professionally and I have no wardrobe for this. I almost had a heart attack when they told me and I couldnt tell them my situation because I was afraid that something so stupid could cause me to lose my job if they felt that way about me. I have a very good job and I have been with this company for 8 years. The last thing I want is to give them a wrong impression on me.

So long story short, I have completely stopped paying all of my creditors and I dont have much excess cash to go shopping for some business clothes but I do have an Express department store card that has a zero balance and has always been in good standings. I plan on filing BK within the next 90 days. Express is a small clothing store that has a lot of business attire for pretty good prices. Can anyone give me any insight as to what may happen if I were to go and use the Express card to purchase some clothes for work and include this balance in my bk? Do clothing stores go after clothes? I heard from a friend of mine that a furniture store asked for a couch back and they got it but how likely is something like that to happen with clothes? Do you think the trustee would dismiss my case if they saw this? Would they even notice it?

I honestly hate to even ask this question but I dont know what to do...if anyone has done anything similiar to this and got away with it can you please share with me what it was you did. My apologies to this forum if this is against any rules of the forums. Thanks again and take care!

[epiphany]

Before you read this please understand that I am a very good person and I never look for bad intentions to happen by any means although I'm sure what I'm about to ask is going to make you judge. This is pure desperation.

My company recently moved me from a retail position to a corporate hq position. My company provides uniforms for all retail positions but now I have to to start coming to work dressed professionally and I have no wardrobe for this. I almost had a heart attack when they told me and I couldnt tell them my situation because I was afraid that something so stupid could cause me to lose my job if they felt that way about me. I have a very good job and I have been with this company for 8 years. The last thing I want is to give them a wrong impression on me.

So long story short, I have completely stopped paying all of my creditors and I dont have much excess cash to go shopping for some business clothes but I do have an Express department store card that has a zero balance and has always been in good standings. I plan on filing BK within the next 90 days. Express is a small clothing store that has a lot of business attire for pretty good prices. Can anyone give me any insight as to what may happen if I were to go and use the Express card to purchase some clothes for work and include this balance in my bk? Do clothing stores go after clothes? I heard from a friend of mine that a furniture store asked for a couch back and they got it but how likely is something like that to happen with clothes? Do you think the trustee would dismiss my case if they saw this? Would they even notice it?

I honestly hate to even ask this question but I dont know what to do...if anyone has done anything similiar to this and got away with it can you please share with me what it was you did. My apologies to this forum if this is against any rules of the forums. Thanks again and take care!

Okay, not judging you.... just giving you the facts. That is BK Fraud and yes, your case could easily be dismissed. It's not worth it so don't do it.

That being said, is there anyone you can borrow some clothing from for your new position? You really only need five outfits for the week and can mix and match some pieces so that it looks like five. Or can you look around at thrift stores--you can find some pretty nice stuff in there sometimes at very cheap prices. Is there any kind of job services program in your area that might be able to help you out? Is there nothing in your wardrobe that you can use as a starting point?

I am sure others will jump in with some resourceful tips but start thinking about how you can make this happen. Don't risk the dismissal of your BK.

ep

[danaf]

Agreed, bk fraud - if you intend on filing do not do this! No judgments here - just advice based on your question.

[DebtorDan]

okay. i'm not a lawyer and i'm no expert, but it really isn't fraud is it? isn't that a bit extreme, wouldn't the worst that would happen be that that particular debt could end up being non-dischargeable if the creditor objected. if they did, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[epiphany]

okay. i'm not a lawyer and i'm no expert, but it really isn't fraud is it? isn't that a bit extreme, wouldn't the worst that would happen be that that particular debt could end up being non-dischargeable if the creditor objected. if they did, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

Nope. If you charge something with no intention of paying it back, that is the definition of BK fraud and your whole case could be dismissed. Extreme or not, not worth it.

ep

[morallyBR2]

Have you tried places like Target or Kohl's? They have affordable business and business casual clothing.

[ltrain823]

Nope. If you charge something with no intention of paying it back, that is the definition of BK fraud and your whole case could be dismissed. Extreme or not, not worth it.

ep

Epiphany, I appreciate you sharing your expertise. I know this is fraud and I hate to keep inquiring but how will anyone know what the "intentions" are? If my story is what it is and I had to get some new clothes for a postion change and then after that it was difficult for me to pay back then wouldnt that be a legitamate case?

[Cali]

Yes it is fraud, the OP has no intention of paying back the debt.

okay. i'm not a lawyer and i'm no expert, but it really isn't fraud is it? isn't that a bit extreme, wouldn't the worst that would happen be that that particular debt could end up being non-dischargeable if the creditor objected. if they did, you wouldn't have a leg to stand on.

[Cali]

Will you make a payment on the card before you file, if not then it is fraud.

Epiphany, I appreciate you sharing your expertise. I know this is fraud and I hate to keep inquiring but how will anyone know what the "intentions" are? If my story is what it is and I had to get some new clothes for a postion change and then after that it was difficult for me to pay back then wouldnt that be a legitamate case?

[CindyLou]

Ok here goes my speech again. Sometimes we have to make difficult choices for things like personal safety or general well being.

Personally I would go to the express and get what you need to keep your job!!!! If it is truly a need and you will not be able to keep your job if you don't do it then I don't see that you have choice!!

The worse case scenario is this; They object (highly unlikely if less than 500 or so) Then if they do object you can deal with it at that time and pay it back. It will not affect the rest of your bk.

Technically, by the letter of the law it is fraud, but again, do what you need to do to survive at this time. A job is the key to your survival right now and you know in your heart if this is truly a need or just a want.

Sincerely,

[epiphany]

Epiphany, I appreciate you sharing your expertise. I know this is fraud and I hate to keep inquiring but how will anyone know what the "intentions" are? If my story is what it is and I had to get some new clothes for a postion change and then after that it was difficult for me to pay back then wouldnt that be a legitamate case?

You already let us know what your intentions are (which are to not pay it back), so we know it is fraud. Again, just the fact, no judgement. I acually thought (for a split second) about charging a vacumn cleaner on my Macy's card which has a zero balance and then not paying. This was after I had decided to file BK so you are not alone in your thinking.

I don't know how anyone else who does not read this would know. Have you already seen a lawyer? That's one way.

In any case, a charge within 90 days of filing that you have not made any payments on will raise a red flag. How comfortable are you explaining yourself to the trustee?

Me, I'm a bad liar and would rather not have to worry about it.
ep

[ltrain823]

Will you make a payment on the card before you file, if not then it is fraud.

Yes I would be able to make the minimum payments until I file.

[ltrain823]

Ok here goes my speech again. Sometimes we have to make difficult choices for things like personal safety or general well being.

Personally I would go to the express and get what you need to keep your job!!!! If it is truly a need and you will not be able to keep your job if you don't do it then I don't see that you have choice!!

The worse case scenario is this; They object (highly unlikely if less than 500 or so) Then if they do object you can deal with it at that time and pay it back. It will not affect the rest of your bk.

Technically, by the letter of the law it is fraud, but again, do what you need to do to survive at this time. A job is the key to your survival right now and you know in your heart if this is truly a need or just a want.

Sincerely,

Cindy,

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom. This truly is a need and I would never intentionally "want" to do this.

[danaf]

Yeah - but now that you know, if you do it, you are "intentionally" doing it whether you want to or not.

Just make sure if you are going to file- it will be about 4-6 mos down the road or more and make payments on this transaction you want to do.

~ good luck

[CindyLou]

Also, I would recommend the minimum payments too.....

Good luck! I know how hard it is to by and maintain clothing. I am a nurse and work in adminstration...so I am expected to wear suits, but I wear scrubs as much as I can due to the cost of profession attire. Sometimes I can't get away with it for important meetings and such, but I'm lucky to be able to pull the "nurse card" and throw on the scrubs and tennies for the day as much as I can.