Should I move back in abandoned home after 3 yrs sitting Vacant-still not foreclosed

[venicehope]

Here's a crazy twist of fait. It's been nearly four years from my chapter 7 discharge. We surrendered our home & were discharge of the loan (originally World Saving-Wachovia-Wellsfargo) In fear of being evicted/foreclosed on & not being able to rent due to a bk on our credit we abandoned the house imediately after filing chapter7. Remember this was early on in the market crash, no one knew a foreclosure would take years! Anyway...we rented for a bit then lived in a family friends home for free while on the market. It is now sold & our abandoned house remains so. The bank has not even changed the locks. They filed a lis pend in june 2009, the county put the house up for a tax sale in 2010. The bank paid the taxes, & secured insurance on the property, but has not stepped foot on it. 10 months ago we received a document removing our names. Yet we are still on the deed & wachovia/wellsgargo is still sending me info about cash for keys & other incentives. At this point we have no where to go & no money to rent. I'm about to move into our abandoned house. Which by the way is the eye sore of the neighborhood! We'll clean up the yard & landscape, empty the pool and clean it up, get the electricity and water reconnected & move in.
I need advise from any willing to give it. On pro's or Con's or concerns/info I should be aware of! In consideration of our HOA & neighbors, I'd like to pay (not past year debts) from here on yearly fees.
A realestate friend mentioned to take photo's & video of the house prior to clean up. On the grounds that we are moving in to protect our interest ----being our names are still on the deed! And show they're lack of concern of the property (although they paid the insurance) btw the house is valued 298,000. we were discharged on the loan fpr 520,000. & it has another second loan of 50,000 on it that I beleive will not be dissolved until it is foreclosed on? I think. .

[AngelinaCatHub]

If you had stayed until forced eviction which has not come, you would be off the hook. However, having abandoned that place, without permission, you may be guilty of criminal trespass. It has been too long and then you would be a squatter as well. I would appeal to the bank to "care take" the property with the idea that you would improve the place and keep it safe. It is worth a try and much safer than moving back in. Also HOA charges would go on from day one of your re entry. This you must pass before a lawyer for your own good. 'Hub

[tobee43]

all i can say is wow!!!!

it was mentioned to be since we are in the same boat as far as the time involved without a foreclosure on our property. someone actually suggested for us to rent it out and get some bucks. but we couldn't because of the ponds and large pool, i would be scared to death about any liability at this point.

however, if the place was in florida as opposed to nj i would move my butt right back in. (we now live in flordia). we didn't stay because the utilities alone were running approx 1200 bucks a month!! shoot, that's the total for everything we pay here including mortgage, taxes, a/c, running our pool, garage, water,etc.

i say why not???? i'm sure someone will chime in with why not, however, if you names are still on the deed and all...well then, i would do it.

[LadyInTheRed]

10 months ago we received a document removing our names. Yet we are still on the deed & wachovia/wellsgargo is still sending me info about cash for keys & other incentives.

Those two sentances seem to contradict each other. What document did you receive and what did it remove your names from?

If title is still in your names, I say move in. You can't trespass on property you own.

[justbroke]

Lady in Red is correct... something seems wrong. It is simple to check ownership in ANY COUNTY in Florida. Simply go to Sarasota County's Property Appraiser's Website and search for your property (by address or name). If your name is on it there, you own it! If it's not listed under your name, then you don't own it.

[venicehope]

I went back to our paperwork, the last document we received from the court was on Jan. 26, 2011. It reads
civil action
Wachovia Mortgage fsa fka World Savings Bank ([U]which is now wellsfargo...will this document now have to be resubmitted with the right bank on it, maybe another delay?)
Notice of Dropping Defendants
Plantiffs Wachovia & World Savings hereby dismisses the following parties persuant to Rule 1.250, Fla. R. Civ. P.;
I DONT KNOW WHAT THIS DOCUMENT MEANS?
ALSO while searching for documents on line at the County Property Appraiser's website. I noticed there is NO Deed filed by World Saving/Wachovia/Wellsfargo on the loan orginated in 2005-the same we were discharged from. The very document I believe to be the reason for the foreclosure delay! Our first Deed is filed from when we originally bought the house in 2004 but not the re-finance with World Savings from 2005.

[venicehope]

Thanks, I just checked the records & came to find out the deed from our refinance loan with world savings is not on record. hmmmm I have it in my paperwork but the county doesn't. Our name is still on the property.
The Lis Pendens filed has two bar code stamps but is not dated at the signature on the bottom where one is to fill the blank line with the day of the month.
On the Notice of Dropping Defendants & the Lis Pendens there is a Doc Mort. Stamp $0.00, Doc Deed Stamp $0.00, Intag. Tax $0.00 all of no values. I don't know if it's signifacant? Any thoughts? Thanks again

[justbroke]

If it's a Withdrawal of the Lis Pendens, then the foreclosure was "stopped" (dismissed). The fact that your name is still on the County Property Appraiser's Website as the owner, means that you are, in fact, the owner. If there isn't a current "Lis Pendens" in the Civil Court Website, then you are not currently in process of being sued for foreclosure.

The Notice of Dropping of Defendants is because the banks will usually serve the complaint on "Unknown Tenant #1" through "Unknown Tenant #4" as well as other "unknown" parties (such as "Unknown Spouse").

The only key here is whether you are the current listed and titled owner of the property. You confirmed that you are, so you still own the home.

Additionally, if there was no recorded mortgage at the time that the Chapter 7 case was filed, then I might want to go back to my BK attorney and see if you should re-open your case. This is because the lien could be avoided. Yes, there are other potential issues, such as your claim of homestead exemption. Did you refinance before the Chapter 7... and if so, how long prior to filing did you refinance? How much equity do you have, if any?

[venicehope]

OK. I'm trying to take this all in & make sense of it all.
1. How do I find out if it was a withdrawl of the Lis pen? Could this be related torule 1.420 dismissal of actions, because no action was taken between Lis pend filed 6/12/2009 to 1/26/2011 Dropping Defendants.
3. The info I've gotten as yet is all from The Clerk of the Circuit Court.
4. Can I access the Civil Court Website? I'll try.
5. What does it mean if they stopped (dismissed) the foreclosure & WHY?
6. Yes, the wording included is on unknown spouses, tenants #1-4,the names being fictiticious to account for parties in possession.
7. WOW re-open our BANKRUPTCY! SACREY! What lien are you talking about (the second mortgage or the county tax sale?)
8. We financed about 2 years prior to filing Chapter7. There is not a penny of equity in the house. Our equity was pulled out when we refinanced to purchase a flip investment.
That property as well as our home (we speak of) were both surrended in the bankruptcy. The investment property (financed with Chase) was foreclosed within a year of bankruptcy. But our home is still in limbo. All The chase documents are listed on the Circuit Court site....nothing from World Savings. Although the investment had 200,000. in equity we couldn't keep it because it had a 600,000. loan on it we couldn't afford.
9. Do you think there's any chance we could legally really own our home? I heard alot of this n that about peeple trying to get their homes back due to lost paperwork but have yet to see any such incident go documented!
I can't thank you enough for your help!!!!

[venicehope]

I forgot to mention I can't remember if our home was homesteaded or the investment was. (it was all very complicated at the time)
How would it matter?

[tobee43]

i'm with jb and lady on this as well.

a lis pendens can be removed by termination, withdrawal or expungement. once a lis pendens is recorded, it is effective throughout the litigation of the case, its appeal, and up to the point the judgment is satisfied. termination can occur when the judgment on the underlying action has become final, or when the underlying action has been settled or dismissed. withdrawal occurs when the party who recorded the lis pendens voluntarily files a "notice of withdrawal of lis pendens" with the county recorder. expungement occurs when an aggrieved party brings a motion before the court and the court enters an order expunging (i.e. destroying) the lis pendens.

and i wouldn't contact the lenders attys to find out which applies

if all your information is coming from the clerk of the circuit court, sounds pretty much legit to me! but that's me .

who knows anymore with all the robo signing mess. i have heard people keeping their homes as a result, however, that is not the norm. you can got to the county clerks office yourself and do some searches. that way, usually, it's not as noticeable. i would think if the bank never foreclosed and it's in limbo, and in your name, it's pretty much a open book unless you find something in the court house stating the contrary.

[OHBOY]

I forgot to mention I can't remember if our home was homesteaded or the investment was. (it was all very complicated at the time)
How would it matter?

Your property appraisers office (on online site) will be able to clue you in as to whether or not your home has the homestead exemption. ..
Now, (in my humble opinion) I would not necessary volunteer the information that you have not lived there for quite some time, as that (I think...) would be frowned upon (most likely fined...?) since you are supposed to report if there is a change with the homestead exemption (you are, I believe, supposed to live there if you claim the exemption)... We get a post card once a year, and if we continue to live here/claiming the exemption than no response is called for. However, if there is a change we have to report that change...

The homestead exemption described above is for tax purposes.

IF you claimed the property to be your FL homestead, I believe you should/would have filed a statement with the court/clerk since that's totally separate from the assessors office...at least that's what we did.

[tobee43]

is this a dup post?

yep

[justbroke]

1. How do I find out if it was a withdrawl of the Lis pen? Could this be related torule 1.420 dismissal of actions, because no action was taken between Lis pend filed 6/12/2009 to 1/26/2011 Dropping Defendants.
3. The info I've gotten as yet is all from The Clerk of the Circuit Court.
4. Can I access the Civil Court Website? I'll try.
5. What does it mean if they stopped (dismissed) the foreclosure & WHY?
6. Yes, the wording included is on unknown spouses, tenants #1-4,the names being fictiticious to account for parties in possession.

For foreclosures, there are two sections of the Clerk of the Circuit Court Website that you must use. The first is the Clerk of the Circuit Court under the Civil Court section. It appears you have done that. You will see a Foreclosure Civil Action. You just check the case status and see if it is "ACTIVE" or "CLOSED". The "Civil" and "Criminal" cases actually show up in the same search. The difference is that civil matters will be coded with "Court Type" as "CIRCUIT CIVIL". (Criminal cases would show up as "COUNTY CRIMINAL".) This is where you'll see the foreclosure lawsuit.

The other section is the "Official Records" section. This is where you'll see the "Lis Pendens" and all other "recorded" documents for your County.

7. WOW re-open our BANKRUPTCY! SACREY! What lien are you talking about (the second mortgage or the county tax sale?)
8. We financed about 2 years prior to filing Chapter7. There is not a penny of equity in the house. Our equity was pulled out when we refinanced to purchase a flip investment.

Well, not really, but some have tried to get the lien avoided under the Trustee's super-lien priority in a Chapter 7. Consulting your attorney will at least let you know if this is possible. I'd double check that section of the Clerk's Website (Official Records) first to make sure there is no recordation of the refinanced mortgage. Then, your attorney can help decipher if there's really anything you could do about the unrecorded lien. Remember, an unrecorded lien just means that they lose their PRIORITY in a "race to the courthouse". Technically, someone else could jump in and record a lien and that would subordinate the refinanced mortgage! If a tax certificate was to turn into a tax deed... the owner of that tax deed could make out with a lot of money.

So, the chance of "owning" the house is very very very very remote... however, it should be explored as to whether the lien is recorded and what affect that has on your discharge. This isn't a "lost paperwork" or "show me the note" problem. The fact is, that they have a promissory note and a mortgage to back it. Their problem is that they didn't record it so anyone who records a lien before them... wins.

[justbroke]

yep

The dupe was already removed.