Who is liable for the frozen/busted pipes at our surrendered house?

[keepswimming]

First of all, just got our discharge letter on Saturday.

Also on Saturday, our realtor called and told me that the copper pipes and cast iron valves on the hot water heating system in our house have totally busted. Bank of America had sent someone/hired a company to "winterize" the place back in the fall. We specifically told that person doing it to make sure to include the heating pipes. (By "we" i mean my neighbor who stopped by, and our realtor via phone...twice). Well, apparently, they did not follow directions and there is now at least 10, maybe 20k in damage.

We had a buyer waiting for a short sale approval. BofA said they were about to approve, then we filed bk and we were waiting for "bk" dept to review. It has been since Thanksgiving and no word from b of a. Obviously, buyers are walking. Even if they were still interested their 131K offer will probably become a 100k offer and it could take eternity to get b of a to approve that.

Should we try to get Skank of America to do a DIL ? It is their fault we are in this situation to begin with (I won't bore you with details). And they have botched every step of this process since day one.

[keepswimming]

The broken pipes/heating system will obviously lower the value of the home. This issue will also make the home take longer to get a buyer. Will the fact that it was Bank of America's fault help me to have any leverage with them in order to try to either 1)force a Deed in Lieu, or 2)preapprove a short sale ?

I am calling a couple of lawyers today. Our bk lawyer does not seem to know anything about these things. grrrr.

[panda]

This is interesting. I have no clue what will happen, but I hope you keep us updated on your progress so we can learn along with you.

[keepswimming]

Talked to a few attorneys. The one with the most interesting answers gave me a couple of things to check into.
1) Seek an attorney for the state the house is in and get the title conveyed to a LLC entity. This might light a fire under BOA's /Fannie Mae's hiney to get something done faster.
2) Reopen our bk and change it to a 13 and do a cram down so we could just pay off the house in five years (with a renter). Then in five years we could either move back (which I doubt we would want to do) or sell it and use that money for life, kids' college, missions, more mac and cheese....As good as this one sounds, it is also laced with all kinds of worms that could be hiding in the can, I am afraid.

Another response I got said we could turn the pipe damage into our insurance, have it all fixed, and let the insurance company try to sue the field service company for the mess they made. I am not even sure an insurance company would cover it. Seems they too, have loopholes for their loopholes.

[tobee43]

our home ....was surrendered....we left in the winter...we did notify the bank although our atty's advised...just lock it.. and leave it...we didn't...we did what we thought was the right thing...

anyway........it was dec...-30 wind chill factor......all frozen pipes...frozen toilets from what we heard.......the bank has had the house for about 3 years now and has not foreclosed...WHAT a mess......BLACK mold......OH...yeah the septic because of all the snow backed up into the house.....and i can go on and on and on....our insurance company dropped the homeowners the minute we vacated the premises and the bank was notified and the house was insured under their (the banks umbrella policy)....they changed the locks...and did winterize the property...(again someone sent us a picture that the bank left notice on the front door that the house was winterized on such and such a date)....NOT that it made any difference...too little to late...they did it approx. 3 months AFTER we left!

we have been discharged and a no asset chapter closed case just about 2 years now......it's the banks problem not ours..

[keepswimming]

Oh Tobee, that sounds awful. Such a shame that these homes go downhill. I hate that!

So, now what? You just going to rent forever then?
Did you stop insurance coverage? See we were told that we had to have it or they would assign some to us. So I found some. We also have been keeping electricity on so that the basement does not flood. At this point, I wonder if that is our problem any more? Maybe since we were just discharged last week that makes a difference? Ahhhhh, so many layers, so many laws. And none of them benefit the borrower even a tiny bit.

Is it legal for me to just get a renter? If they are not going to foreclose or give us a DIL, then couldn't I just rent it out?

[tobee43]

Oh Tobee, that sounds awful. Such a shame that these homes go downhill. I hate that!

So, now what? You just going to rent forever then?
Did you stop insurance coverage? See we were told that we had to have it or they would assign some to us. So I found some. We also have been keeping electricity on so that the basement does not flood. At this point, I wonder if that is our problem any more? Maybe since we were just discharged last week that makes a difference? Ahhhhh, so many layers, so many laws. And none of them benefit the borrower even a tiny bit.

Is it legal for me to just get a renter? If they are not going to foreclose or give us a DIL, then couldn't I just rent it out?

some people get renters in there vacated homes...we would never think of that due to liablily...nor how to explain to the trustee the income...we called our homeowners insurance company ....we had an escrow account so the insurance was paid in full...however, once in our state, anyway, (it may vary from state to state)....our company would NOT cover an non owner occupied dwelling.

we left the state and rented the first year out......then we did a rent option to buy with our second rental........we closed on this house feb 15...just about 2 weeks ago!!! owner financed 100% a straight 15 year...so no...we are now "new" home owners again........this house is ONLY six years old but was lived in for only 3 out of the six and that was rentals off and on...

again...it's a personal decision about renting the property...i know many on this forum have done it...once again...for me...i would be too worried....but that's just me..

oh...and just an added comment.....our OLD homeowners insurance company sent us a full refund for the year for the insurance which they deducted from the bank...LOL!!!! i called them to say you made a mistake this check should go to the bank...the insurance company said.......NO it's YOUR money YOU paid the bank....and so we are giving it BACK TO YOU...cool!

[keepswimming]

tobee, so has "your" house sold? so awesome that you got a refund.
in getting a 100% owner financed loan, was that hard to do? sounds like a dream come true, after living thru the nightmare and years of no sleep!

i just cannot imagine continuing to pay homeowner's insurance, electricity (so it doesnt flood), and now coming into spring and summer: mowing expenses for acres of land.

[keepswimming]

Looks like your previous post states that it did not sell/foreclose. What a shame that the property is just left for dead. I really hate that banks can do this. Too bad. Luckily you found a way out without waiting the whole process out. Good for you. I hope we can be that lucky!

[clevelandmom]

Looks like your previous post states that it did not sell/foreclose. What a shame that the property is just left for dead. I really hate that banks can do this. Too bad. Luckily you found a way out without waiting the whole process out. Good for you. I hope we can be that lucky!

This is proof that not only are the banks crooked bastards, but they're also really, really stupid. Instead of spending maybe a few thousand to keep a property up for potential renters/buyers, they literally let them go to hell. . .thus lowering the value of the homes surrounding it. . .thus having thousands and thousands of dollars lost due to lower values. . . not to mention the worse a house gets, the less chances that someone will want to buy/rent it, making it sit longer. . with no property taxes being paid. . .and growing more horrific by the minute. Then come the squatters, and no one wants to live around there anymore. . . yeah, that's a great idea. Winterize the pipes and mow the damn lawn you bank idiots. God knows with the high unemployment rate, there are plenty of people out there that I'm sure would be willing to help keep up abandoned homes. They could create a ton of jobs! Oh wait. . .greed. . that's right, they don't want to spend the money. (BTW, for all of you that type "B of A" - everytime I read that I literally read it as "Bunch of A&&holes" LOL)

[tobee43]

Looks like your previous post states that it did not sell/foreclose. What a shame that the property is just left for dead. I really hate that banks can do this. Too bad. Luckily you found a way out without waiting the whole process out. Good for you. I hope we can be that lucky!

it was a beautiful 4500 sq foot house that went to crap......but we think it's because of bad paper work?? or the septic is blown by now...we have no clue...other than if there is a statue of limitations on everything other than murder....the banks are going to have to do something. at first we just wanted our names off the deed......now i can care less...we have no responsiblity...the bank changed the locks and have been caring for the house for 3 years!!...and as i stated before it makes no sense for this bank to NOT as least collect on the PMI...however, they must go through the "legal" process of foreclosure prior to submitting for reimbursement from FHA.......and the thing that can be stopping the bank...are a few reasons.......1. bad paperwork....2. attempting to keep foreclosure stats down.....3. the leach fields, septic and flooding... would cost 100s of thousands to get it back in shape now....you think??? LOL...like who would buy that...we were the ONLY ones with 12 sub pumps keeping the house literally afloat...

i was careful with our second rental and looked for a owner owned property......who was willing to sell.....it took me a year but i submitted a contract to him in dec and he accepted it!!!! we borrowed some funds from family so we could do a "straight' 15 year...and he gave us 5%.....it was a ton of hard work!!

[keepswimming]

Clevelandmom,
I KNOW! This is insane. The banks are ruining the face and the core of our nation. How can we fight back? I would love to do something. But as BOA told me two days ago after wasting another six hours on the phones with their incompetent folks, "FANNIE MAE IS THE GOVERNMENT...THEY CAN TAKE AS LONG AS THEY WANT".....how do we go up against that, and why would they even want to put us in this situation across the entire country???? All to keep the stockholders and investors thinking everything is rosy? To keep the books looking good for just a little longer? It has to all fall down at some point.

[keepswimming]

it was a beautiful 4500 sq foot house that went to crap......but we think it's because of bad paper work?? or the septic is blown by now...we have no clue...other than if there is a statue of limitations on everything other than murder....the banks are going to have to do something. at first we just wanted our names off the deed......now i can care less...we have no responsiblity...the bank changed the locks and have been caring for the house for 3 years!!...and as i stated before it makes no sense for this bank to NOT as least collect on the PMI...however, they must go through the "legal" process of foreclosure prior to submitting for reimbursement from FHA.......and the thing that can be stopping the bank...are a few reasons.......1. bad paperwork....2. attempting to keep foreclosure stats down.....3. the leach fields, septic and flooding... would cost 100s of thousands to get it back in shape now....you think??? LOL...like who would buy that...we were the ONLY ones with 12 sub pumps keeping the house literally afloat...

i was careful with our second rental and looked for a owner owned property......who was willing to sell.....it took me a year but i submitted a contract to him in dec and he accepted it!!!! we borrowed some funds from family so we could do a "straight' 15 year...and he gave us 5%.....it was a ton of hard work!!

Oh gosh, sounds familiar! We have just one big sump pump for the 3200 sf basement that probably has lead paint and black mold. NOW, thanks to BOA it also has BUSTED PIPES and NO HEAT!!!!!! How can they get away with this? We had a buyer, amazingly! But they walked. They will not get another buyer for a long time, I am sure, now.
So, if i cancel insurance and tell them i am turning off electricity do you really think they will turn it on? If they don't there will for SURE BE A HUGE FLOOD with all the snow melting. And before long black mold everywhere. Dang it, why didn't we just leave the pink shag carpet in there instead of paying someone to refinish all the floors upstairs? We are dumb.

[tobee43]

This is proof that not only are the banks crooked bastards, but they're also really, really stupid. Instead of spending maybe a few thousand to keep a property up for potential renters/buyers, they literally let them go to hell. . .thus lowering the value of the homes surrounding it. . .thus having thousands and thousands of dollars lost due to lower values. . . not to mention the worse a house gets, the less chances that someone will want to buy/rent it, making it sit longer. . with no property taxes being paid. . .and growing more horrific by the minute. Then come the squatters, and no one wants to live around there anymore. . . yeah, that's a great idea. Winterize the pipes and mow the damn lawn you bank idiots. God knows with the high unemployment rate, there are plenty of people out there that I'm sure would be willing to help keep up abandoned homes. They could create a ton of jobs! Oh wait. . .greed. . that's right, they don't want to spend the money. (BTW, for all of you that type "B of A" - everytime I read that I literally read it as "Bunch of A&&holes" LOL)

the banks pay the taxes....since if they don't ....it can go up for tax sale for a few thousand dollars......and actually from what we heard they are cutting PART of the front lawn...we had acers of grounds and gardens so it would have cost the banks a fortune to keep up the gounds...so way...and pond, and pool...spa..that's also why we couldn't rent..could you imagine if someone drowned in the pond or pool....OH!!! no way...

and your right...the bank has hired someone to take care of things now...so at the least someone is making some money...i hope...

[keepswimming]

so, tobee, the bank did hire someone for your place? that is great....they keep trying to make me believe that it is my responsibility to keep insurance and electricity. ... i am so done. i am going to check into how much it will cost to get it conveyed to an LLC, since we no longer are responsible for the debt itself. If it costs too much I guess we just let it all run its course (that does not sit right with me still, trying to convince myself that is what we will do).