Is it wise to DV indiscriminately?

[dman]

It's common knowledge that you should send a DV letter on day 20-something, Return-Receipt, etc. etc. What I'd like to talk about is when you may NOT want to send a DV, and why.

I would only send a DV letter if they (creditors) know your correct address and employer, and you're just needing to buy an extra month or two until you file bankruptcy. I personally would not send a DV letter if you just want them to leave you alone.

Think about it...a person with nothing to lose is probably not going to go through the hassle and expense of sending a letter requesting validation of the debt via certified mail. If it's so important you keep them off your backs that you'll pay several bucks (or more) to send this letter, have obviously done your research (else you'd just stick a first-class stamp on it and think that's good enough), and will take the time out of your day to go to the post office (can't just stick a certified letter in the mailbox, well unless you run your own business and have a stamps.com account), then you must have some assets that they want. They may be more likely to file a suit against you, because "the squeaky mouse gets the mousetrap."

It's the same reasoning behind NOT trying to clean up your credit reports until everything has aged off and is past SOL. If creditors notice you trying to clean your reports...then you must 1) really want/need a clean report (i.e. about to buy a car/house) and 2) have some funds (i.e. a down payment on that car/house). They'll come out of the woodwork and cause you lots of grief.

So...if you're not planning on filing for bankruptcy in the near future, and don't have any large assets you're worried about losing, I might recommend laying low. Act like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand (a myth btw, but still...). Only look up if/when you hear the word "lawsuit" and if the words "may pursue" precede it, put your head back in the sand.

It also helps if you have no bank accounts (checking, savings) that show up on a credit report or ChexSystems. Also good if creditors have no idea where you work (so if you happen to get a new job...don't use them as a reference on any credit apps...don't even fill out any credit apps!). If you move, try to give no trace of your new address (get a P.O. box in a neighboring city, have mail "temporarily" forwarded from the old address to the P.O. box...temporary forwarding has less chance of revealing the new address, and if they DO get the new address, it's not in the same city you live/work in, right?). So, for the next year you'll still get regular mail notices from creditors, and may get notice of a possible lawsuit. Check pacer on a monthly basis (check the regular court system, not the bankruptcy court) and see if anything's filed against you...if so, check with a lawyer. If you can prove you don't live at the address you were "served" at, maybe you can file something saying that you don't live there, and need to be served at such-and-such address in a different court district. Bonus points if you're out of state...even more bonus points if you can keep hopping between two states (soon as they finally get the new address, get a lawyer in that state, and can serve you...oops you just went back to your home state, try again!).

So anyways...if you can lay low, have no assets in danger of them taking, and don't look like a good target (no recent bank accounts showing up, no verifiable employment, etc.), it just may be better to NOT send a certified letter RR asking for debt validation. If they're phoning friends/family/work, send them a cease/desist letter (if they don't know your employer...just tell them it's not convenient to reach you via phone, and all correspondence must be in writing...no need to tell them it's not convenient to phone you at work if they don't know you're employed!).

Just some food for thought.

[IamOld]

Very interesting!!!

I will say this though - somehow three creditors including JDB found me at my UNLISTED brand newly created direct line at my new job - no apps for ANYTHING since new job...

[dman]

No idea how they found you, but it was probably something simple. Did anyone at your old job know about your new job? Was your new employer in the same town and in the same field (i.e. old job was with Joe's Construction in Anytown PA, and new job was with Bob's Construction in Anytown PA)? If so, maybe they just called a few related companies, found one that said "yes he is in, would you like me to transfer you?" and asked for your direct number (you know...so they wouldn't have to bother the secretary every time they called you, I'm sure they sounded nice and sincere).

Main thing is, don't make it easy for them. Sure, they can find you wherever you are...but you don't have to make it easy, and you DON'T have to make them want to find you (i.e., don't poke them with a stick, and maybe they won't look so hard for you).

[GoingDown]

It's common knowledge that you should send a DV letter on day 20-something, Return-Receipt, etc. etc. What I'd like to talk about is when you may NOT want to send a DV, and why.

I would only send a DV letter if they (creditors) know your correct address and employer, and you're just needing to buy an extra month or two until you file bankruptcy. I personally would not send a DV letter if you just want them to leave you alone.

Think about it...a person with nothing to lose is probably not going to go through the hassle and expense of sending a letter requesting validation of the debt via certified mail. If it's so important you keep them off your backs that you'll pay several bucks (or more) to send this letter, have obviously done your research (else you'd just stick a first-class stamp on it and think that's good enough), and will take the time out of your day to go to the post office (can't just stick a certified letter in the mailbox, well unless you run your own business and have a stamps.com account), then you must have some assets that they want. They may be more likely to file a suit against you, because "the squeaky mouse gets the mousetrap."

It's the same reasoning behind NOT trying to clean up your credit reports until everything has aged off and is past SOL. If creditors notice you trying to clean your reports...then you must 1) really want/need a clean report (i.e. about to buy a car/house) and 2) have some funds (i.e. a down payment on that car/house). They'll come out of the woodwork and cause you lots of grief.

So...if you're not planning on filing for bankruptcy in the near future, and don't have any large assets you're worried about losing, I might recommend laying low. Act like an ostrich with its head stuck in the sand (a myth btw, but still...). Only look up if/when you hear the word "lawsuit" and if the words "may pursue" precede it, put your head back in the sand.

It also helps if you have no bank accounts (checking, savings) that show up on a credit report or ChexSystems. Also good if creditors have no idea where you work (so if you happen to get a new job...don't use them as a reference on any credit apps...don't even fill out any credit apps!). If you move, try to give no trace of your new address (get a P.O. box in a neighboring city, have mail "temporarily" forwarded from the old address to the P.O. box...temporary forwarding has less chance of revealing the new address, and if they DO get the new address, it's not in the same city you live/work in, right?). So, for the next year you'll still get regular mail notices from creditors, and may get notice of a possible lawsuit. Check pacer on a monthly basis (check the regular court system, not the bankruptcy court) and see if anything's filed against you...if so, check with a lawyer. If you can prove you don't live at the address you were "served" at, maybe you can file something saying that you don't live there, and need to be served at such-and-such address in a different court district. Bonus points if you're out of state...even more bonus points if you can keep hopping between two states (soon as they finally get the new address, get a lawyer in that state, and can serve you...oops you just went back to your home state, try again!).

So anyways...if you can lay low, have no assets in danger of them taking, and don't look like a good target (no recent bank accounts showing up, no verifiable employment, etc.), it just may be better to NOT send a certified letter RR asking for debt validation. If they're phoning friends/family/work, send them a cease/desist letter (if they don't know your employer...just tell them it's not convenient to reach you via phone, and all correspondence must be in writing...no need to tell them it's not convenient to phone you at work if they don't know you're employed!).

Just some food for thought.

Yes, this actually makes a lot of sense.

I stopped sending DV letters once the junk debt buyers started sending me stacks of old credit card statements from my account. I think it is a waste of time to DV and it makes sure that they actually do have the documents necessary to win against you in court, if they ever do choose to sue you. A cease and desist letter is all I use now, in the very rare event when one of my very old debts starts to get calls from collection agencies.

If you have no wages to garnish, no assets to take, no checking account on your credit report, no verifiable employer for them to find, etc., and you send them a cease and desist letter so they can't call you anymore, they put your account in the "inactive" pile of their junk debts. I think they use a passive monitoring service provided for a small fee from the credit reporting agencies. If and when your credit report starts showing new activity, they are alerted and will then pull your credit report and start hounding you again with a new collection agency.

Some of my super old debts are from when I was in college in the mid 1990s. They are so old that they can no longer appear on my credit report, but back when I was opening new accounts on my credit report, some of them suddenly came back to life and started calling me and sending me letters. I quickly sent them a cease and desist letter, and told them about Arizona's statute of limitations, never acknowledging that the debt was mine, etc., and I never heard from them again.

Now my credit report looks like I'm dead, credit-wise anyways. No new accounts have been opened since the middle of the last decade, and there have been no hard or soft pulls on my credit report in the last 2 years. Every bit of information about employers, phone numbers, and even addresses is now completely outdated on my credit report.

[GoingDown]

Very interesting!!!

I will say this though - somehow three creditors including JDB found me at my UNLISTED brand newly created direct line at my new job - no apps for ANYTHING since new job...

I wonder how they found you?

Did your new employee run a background check? Or pull your credit report? That would be like ringing the dinner bell for them.

[IamOld]

goingdown - and of course catleg and frogger - things have gotten quiet, except for daily calls from Froster and (whatever)...and one or two of the such...credit report is TRASHED - TRASHED.

Even though somehow three outfits found me at my new work number (unpublished, etc) it is not on my credit report. no new apps for anything.

BUT - credit report shows car #1 paid on time, car #2 30 days late (Correct), and mort 60 days late (correct) - all of these are also in spouse's ch 13.

Funny thing is, one of mine put in a claim under hers (BK court is probably going to reject it) BUT at any rate it shows up on mine as being in Ch 13...

I am going to order - as one of you guys suggested - my credit report for "unemployed..."

[IamOld]

Hi - NOPE no background check for credit anyway...how do I know - because I run them now for them - and the ONLY positions they do checks for is those people in acct who have signature authority ONLY!

Frogger and catleg think someone at my old job was being helpful...that's the only thing I can think of...UNLESS!!!! of course somehow they troll PACER and saw spouse's filing and of course from there they can pull up the info...

I wonder how they found you?

Did your new employee run a background check? Or pull your credit report? That would be like ringing the dinner bell for them.

[GoingDown]

When you applied for your new job, did they ask for your social security number? My guess would be that this is how they found you. Something your new employer did with you ss# led the collectors to your new work phone number.

[IamOld]

When you applied for your new job, did they ask for your social security number? My guess would be that this is how they found you. Something your new employer did with you ss# led the collectors to your new work phone number.

Hi - actually no - we don't ask for SS until someone is hired and accept the job...and I've been here for like almost a year, and only about 1 month ago did this start....very very very weird...

[frogger]

When you applied for your new job, did they ask for your social security number? My guess would be that this is how they found you. Something your new employer did with you ss# led the collectors to your new work phone number.

Doubtful. There is normally a delay for anything new to come up via the ss# angle. I still think that someone at work gave it up.

Happens all the time. (Just don't tell him that I gave you his new numbers.)

[GoingDown]

Ah yes, someone at your former employer may have spilled the beans. Two of my former employers (they were both local small construction contractors) called me and told me that debt collectors had been calling them right around them time my credit cards were charged off, and asking all sorts of questions about me, and they lied to them and said they had never heard of me and then told them to f*** off and stop calling them about me.

And sometimes they call neighbors and relatives, and get the info that way. When I used to have a land phone, I would sometimes get debt collector calls about a neighbor who lived across the street from me. They would ask me to take a note and put it on her door telling her to get in touch with them. Now that's bold! They also asked me questions about her, such as if she still worked at such and such a place. I told them that I never spoke to her, and didn't know anything about her, which was actually true. And there was no way that I was going to help them do their debt collecting job. They called back several times about her, and I started just cussing them out, and they finally stopped calling me about her. But not everyone reacts the way I do to debt collectors. Some people, unfortunately, will cough up all sorts of information to debt collectors.


Pacer is another way, if they knew about your wife filing BK.

[IamOld]

Agreed - which really ticks me off because my eventual successor there (at 40% of my previous pay) is also 40% as good :-)

I actually met an employee where I teach on the side, so to speak, and she told me that the new person is....well...40% as good.

Doubtful. There is normally a delay for anything new to come up via the ss# angle. I still think that someone at work gave it up.

Happens all the time. (Just don't tell him that I gave you his new numbers.)

[IamOld]

Exactly and I think once my present place of employment was spilled by whomever, it made the debt collector "network" somehow...all I can say thank goodness for caller ID!

Ah yes, someone at your former employer may have spilled the beans. Two of my former employers (they were both local small construction contractors) called me and told me that debt collectors had been calling them right around them time my credit cards were charged off, and asking all sorts of questions about me, and they lied to them and said they had never heard of me and then told them to f*** off and stop calling them about me.

And sometimes they call neighbors and relatives, and get the info that way. When I used to have a land phone, I would sometimes get debt collector calls about a neighbor who lived across the street from me. They would ask me to take a note and put it on her door telling her to get in touch with them. Now that's bold! They also asked me questions about her, such as if she still worked at such and such a place. I told them that I never spoke to her, and didn't know anything about her, which was actually true. And there was no way that I was going to help them do their debt collecting job. They called back several times about her, and I started just cussing them out, and they finally stopped calling me about her. But not everyone reacts the way I do to debt collectors. Some people, unfortunately, will cough up all sorts of information to debt collectors.


Pacer is another way, if they knew about your wife filing BK.

[GoingDown]

Yes, it probably did make it to a proprietary debt collector database that they use, and that's how the other debt collectors found the info.

I watched a t.v. news report about debt collector tactics on ABC one time, and it showed them simply typing in a person's ss# and within seconds, their computer screen popped up with employer info, neighbor info, relative info, etc.

[IamOld]

That explains it indeed thanks!!!!!!

Our data in this country is up for sale...along with everything else!

Yes, it probably did make it to a proprietary debt collector database that they use, and that's how the other debt collectors found the info.

I watched a t.v. news report about debt collector tactics on ABC one time, and it showed them simply typing in a person's ss# and within seconds, their computer screen popped up with employer info, neighbor info, relative info, etc.