American General Finance/Furniture Repo/BK

[moonbeam9209]

Hello! I am new here and think this is a great site!

My husband and I have over 70k in debt. Mostly credit card, but we owe AGF about 6k for furniture we bought over 18 mos. ago. We have basically stopped paying all of our credit cards in the last 6 months, due to my husband being laid off last summer. My 15 year old daughter was in a serious auto accident with head injuries, and my husbands company let him go. We think it was because we had such huge medical bills. Anyhow, that's irrelevant.

We have entered into a forbearance with our Credit Union on our Fannie Mae mortgage, and are just trying to keep up with that and my husbands (286.00) car payment. I own a 06 Kia Sedona outright.

My husband spoke with AGF a few weeks ago concerning that furniture pmt, and they wanted us to commit to $100.00 a month. We didn't, because we weren't sure if they would really come get the furniture, and on Friday, they called over and over again, saying that since it was the end of the month, we had to set something up, and as of the 1st of June (tomorrow), that it would become "involuntary" instead of "voluntary".

Not sure what they mean by that, but we are both self-employed, so they can't garnish wages, and we probably do not have much equity in our home. (even though we put 20% down, it was only 20 months ago that we purchased it).

Also, we haven't filed bk, because we were told we were self employed, so why bother.

Do you think they will actually show up to take our furniture? We originally paid 9k for it and owe around 6k, it's not that we don't want to pay them, but we have soooo many credit cards and such, it is impossible to do it all.

Thanks for any advice that you can give!!!

[LuciluS]

Hmmm.....American General Finance? I googled them. Looks like personal loans & home mortgages. That sounds a lot like GE Money who financed new windows for our house. It was an UNsecured loan which means it's just like a Credit Card.

Pull out your Contract, Promissory Note or whatever document you signed with AGF, not the company where you either picked up the furniture or had it delivered. See what is says. Might be suprised to find its a unsecured loan.

Just my thoughts. Post what you find out k?

Luci

[Rick9972]

Also, we haven't filed bk, because we were told we were self employed, so why bother.

I am curious about this statement. Who told you this, and why do you believe this to be the case?

[StartingOver08]

To add to Rick's point above, if you are self employed then the creditor can get a judgment and attach your bank accounts to satisfy the judgment.

Also American General may have a Purchase Money Security Interest(PMSI) in the furniture. Take a look at this link that explains PMSI as it relates to bankruptcy: http://www.moranlaw.net/secured.htm

If there is a PMSI in the furniture, then from a practical point of view, American General may or may not come repossess your furniture - it depends upon whether it is worth it to them or not for the creditor to come after your furniture. I doubt that used furniture has much value at all. The odds are excellent that American General will send you a letter saying to turn the furniture over to them. Whether or not they enforce the letter...who knows. Here is another article that says they may not follow through on their threats to pick up your goods: http://www.doanlaw.com/blog/?p=12

[BigJohn]

Sounds like they are threatening to repossess. They probably will not, but they will make life miserable.

As for bankruptcy, you can file and this loan which probably is a secured loan might get treated as a secured loan.

What does your other finances look like?

[moonbeam9209]

I am curious about this statement. Who told you this, and why do you believe this to be the case?

Actually, friends of ours that consulted an attorney were told since they were self employed and their wages couldn't be garnished, why spend the money to file. I know it isn't cheap to file, but we may end up doing so anyways. Also, their case is different than ours, since they don't own a home, (theirs was foreclosed on and now they are renting), and also their vehicles are finance, and we own one outright, so I know now that it may not have been sound advice. This was months ago and we were just starting to get collection calls.

Of course, now, we get calls all day. We just don't answer the phone. We have a phone that has special ring tones, so if it doesn't ring a certain way, we know not to answer. It is getting to be a stressful way to live, and that's why I am so glad I found this site.

As far as the Agreement we signed when we bought the furniture, I will look for that tonight. We did get a letter from AGF a couple of weeks ago, that said they would protect their interests, etc.

Pertaining to our financial situation, my husband is self employed doing some flooring work, and also handyman/repair work. He decided to start his own business after trying for months to get a job. (one Sales job that he actually started with 31W, on the second day there, he and the other new hire were told that they "just found out" that they would be closing that branch, and was unemployed again after only 2 days of work. I am a bookkeeper and work part time for a realtor, and am also self employed.

As far as them garnishing our checking account, whenever possible, we cash our checks and pay what we can with cash.

I could go on and on about how we got into this mess, but as we all know, there are so many others in our situation. I cannot believe that we were extended so much credit, partly the creditors fault, but after we spent my husbands entire 401k to keep up mortgage payments and minimum credit card payments, we used them to pay utilities, buy food etc.,

ARGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

Thank you all for your quick response!!

[moonbeam9209]

Sounds like they are threatening to repossess. They probably will not, but they will make life miserable.

As for bankruptcy, you can file and this loan which probably is a secured loan might get treated as a secured loan.

What does your other finances look like?

I am confused by your 2nd line???????/

[moonbeam9209]

To add to Rick's point above, if you are self employed then the creditor can get a judgment and attach your bank accounts to satisfy the judgment.

Also American General may have a Purchase Money Security Interest(PMSI) in the furniture. Take a look at this link that explains PMSI as it relates to bankruptcy: http://www.moranlaw.net/secured.htm

If there is a PMSI in the furniture, then from a practical point of view, American General may or may not come repossess your furniture - it depends upon whether it is worth it to them or not for the creditor to come after your furniture. I doubt that used furniture has much value at all. The odds are excellent that American General will send you a letter saying to turn the furniture over to them. Whether or not they enforce the letter...who knows. Here is another article that says they may not follow through on their threats to pick up your goods: http://www.doanlaw.com/blog/?p=12

Thanks, those are great articles. So if they DO send me this letter, should I try to quickly file bk, or will it take them a while to get it back of file a suit??

I am just petrified of the thought that a sheriff will show up at our front door and let the repo man take it all. Not that I care, but the embarassment with neighbors, and especially to my children. Believe me, if I ever thought our financial situation would come to this, I would have never bought this furniture, or anything else I didn't need. It sucks to go from 70k or more a year in income to almost nothing!!!

[justbroke]

I'm not following the thread to well, so forgive me!

moonbeam9209, did you purchase furniture from a furniture store and American General financed it, or did you get a personal loan from American General and put up your furniture as collateral? This makes a big difference.

From reading, it sounds like you went to a furniture store and purchased the furniture using an American General finance account. That would probably make it what StartingOver08 wrote earlier... a PMSI. That would make it a secure loan and the furniture is what secures that loan.

As for not filing Bankruptcy... never follow the advice of non-lawyers... myself included. Unless and until you have had 3 consultations with Bankruptcy and/or attorneys specializing in Asset Protection, then don't go on hearsay. While many Bankruptcy cases are alike, there are some that are very particular so the advice provided to one person does not magically become the same advice for another person.

It's still awhile before any Sheriff shows up at your door. If and when you do file Bankruptcy, you'll be able to list them as a creditor and pay them using the Redemption process. Paying only what the furniture is worth today. Or, you could give them their furniture back.

So, no Sheriff just yet, as they haven't even sued you and won in court yet.

[lrprn]

I am confused by your 2nd line???????/

MB, Big John is saying 1. You can file bankruptcy even if you are self-employed and 2. If you do decide to file bankruptcy, chances are very good that the contract you signed to finance the furniture makes the loan secured against an asset of yours and will have to listed as such on your filing forms. You won't know unless you kept the original forms and can sort out whether the amount you took is unsecured or secured.

What Big John didn't mention is that most of the time, lenders for furniture, electronics, etc are really not interested in repossessing your used stuff (what would they do with your used furniture if they did take it?). The furniture lender (or collector if they've sold your account already) want you to pay them. Creditors and collectors are willing to use all kinds of strong-arm tactics (most legal, some illegal) to scare you and get any $$ they can from you before you go belly-up.

Do yourself a big favor. Set up 3-4 free initial consultations with experienced bankruptcy lawyers in your area. Stop depending on rumors from friends - even friends can have attorney friends who may not understand the first thing about the finer points of bankruptcy - and get real, reliable information to make sound decisions about your family's future.

Go make those appointments, provide all of your financial information to the lawyers as you interview them, and get solid legal advice about what's going to work in your unique financial situation and what won't. THEN make your decisions about what to do to best deal with your financial problems.

[moonbeam9209]

I'm not following the thread to well, so forgive me!

moonbeam9209, did you purchase furniture from a furniture store and American General financed it, or did you get a personal loan from American General and put up your furniture as collateral? This makes a big difference.

From reading, it sounds like you went to a furniture store and purchased the furniture using an American General finance account. That would probably make it what StartingOver08 wrote earlier... a PMSI. That would make it a secure loan and the furniture is what secures that loan.

As for not filing Bankruptcy... never follow the advice of non-lawyers... myself included. Unless and until you have had 3 consultations with Bankruptcy and/or attorneys specializing in Asset Protection, then don't go on hearsay. While many Bankruptcy cases are alike, there are some that are very particular so the advice provided to one person does not magically become the same advice for another person.

It's still awhile before any Sheriff shows up at your door. If and when you do file Bankruptcy, you'll be able to list them as a creditor and pay them using the Redemption process. Paying only what the furniture is worth today. Or, you could give them their furniture back.

So, no Sheriff just yet, as they haven't even sued you and won in court yet.

Yes, sorry for the confusion. I bought the furniture 20 months ago at a furniture store, and AGF is the finance company. It was supposed to be 12 month same as interest, and we all know how that went....

I do have the original agreement,and I will post as soon as I can locate it.

[moonbeam9209]

Yes, sorry for the confusion. I bought the furniture 20 months ago at a furniture store, and AGF is the finance company. It was supposed to be 12 month same as interest, and we all know how that went....

I do have the original agreement,and I will post as soon as I can locate it.

I feel much better now that they probably won't be showing up tomorrow to repo it. I would like to make an agreement at some time, but wanted to get my ducks in a row first. I didn't want to commit to something that I couldn't follow through on, and like I said, there are sooo many creditors out there that want my money. We had collectively about 14 credit cards.

[moonbeam9209]

MB, Big John is saying 1. You can file bankruptcy even if you are self-employed and 2. If you do decide to file bankruptcy, chances are very good that the contract you signed to finance the furniture makes the loan secured against an asset of yours and will have to listed as such on your filing forms. You won't know unless you kept the original forms and can sort out whether the amount you took is unsecured or secured.

What Big John didn't mention is that most of the time, lenders for furniture, electronics, etc are really not interested in repossessing your used stuff (what would they do with your used furniture if they did take it?). The furniture lender (or collector if they've sold your account already) want you to pay them. Creditors and collectors are willing to use all kinds of strong-arm tactics (most legal, some illegal) to scare you and get any $$ they can from you before you go belly-up.

Do yourself a big favor. Set up 3-4 free initial consultations with experienced bankruptcy lawyers in your area. Stop depending on rumors from friends - even friends can have attorney friends who may not understand the first thing about the finer points of bankruptcy - and get real, reliable information to make sound decisions about your family's future.

Go make those appointments, provide all of your financial information to the lawyers as you interview them, and get solid legal advice about what's going to work in your unique financial situation and what won't. THEN make your decisions about what to do to best deal with your financial problems.

Thanks for your advice. I have been putting off seeing an atty, but will make it a priority. One other thing, can the furn. company put a lien on my car. (the one that I pd. 26k for outright/from an inheritance), and is probably worth about 12k now. I have heard that they can make you sell it in bk and buy a cheaper car to pay off your debts. I need to have a reliable car with 3 kids. I had thought about signing it over to my dad, but heard that that's also not a good idea if we might file...

[jadams]

Even though they can't garnish wages easily from a payroll department, it's still important to spend more time considering BK.

I don't know what state you are in, but in my state once they get a judgment in court they can get 12% interest accruing for up to 20 years (if they renew after 10).

So they could sue and determine you have nothing they can attach now, let the 12% interest accrue for a LONG time -- and then bam come out of the woodwork and attach your bank account at a future point when you've reestablished and have some money.

Sure, you don't see that happening in the near future -- but 20 years is a long time for your circumstances to change.

Best of luck finding new employment.

[moonbeam9209]

So are you saying that if we file, that they can't do anything to us later??