What do I say to them (CA)???

[GoingDown]

That all makes sense. I think I have it straight now: keeping the idea of "debt collector" separate from "creditor." My only concern would be that even once I take that one phone call from from the creditor, they'll still try to pressure me by bothering everyone they can determine is connected to me because I'll be ducking all their subsequent phone calls. I'm trying to figure out if there are any constraints on the creditor once they've made personal contact with me. I'm prepared to deal with the debt collectors by knowing the fair debt collections act, but of course I'm resigned to not being able to do much about debt collectors willing to violate the law. I'm guessing suing them under the act isn't feasible.

I'm confident people connected to me can handle it, and that I can deal with their being bothered on my account. I'm just trying to minimize the grief.

Unfortunately, as far as I know, there are no contraints on the Original Creditor, even after they have made they have made initial contact with you. The FDCPA does not apply to them.

However, my own personal experience with them is that after they made contact with me at my own phone number, they called it exclusively, rather than calling my relatives. They really want to speak to me, not my relatives, because they want to try to get me to pay them.

After about 6 months of no payments, the Original Creditor will usually assign the account to a third party debt collector, and then you can use the FDCPA against them.

I currently have a land line telephone for relatives, friends, and creditors to call, and I have caller I.D. and an answering machine to screen my calls.

I have a new pay as you go cell phone for business purposes, and I didn't give out that number to any of my relatives or friends, because I learned the hard way that friends and relatives will sometimes make the mistake of giving my phone number to creditors, and my cell phone is how I make a living, so I want to be able to answer it at all times immediately, without having to worry about it being a debt collector calling me. It has worked wonderfully for me.

Actually, some people have had great success filing lawsuits against debt collectors for violating the FDCPA. Some of them have racked up so many violations against the debt collectors and junk debt buyers that they get them to settle out of court for far less than what they owe them, and some have even reported being able to get judgments against the debt collectors and junk debt buyers for thousands of dollars. The problem is that you have to be good at speaking in front of a judge and know enough about the law to represent yourself well in court. And of course, you have to have the time to do all of this stuff. I'm too busy to bother with it and I don't like public speaking. I have focused on a defensive posture rather than an offensive stance. I have made myself as judgment proof as one can possibly be, until I can file for bankruptcy at some distant point in the future.

[IOIOIO]

If you talk to each creditor at least once, informing them you only want to deal with the issue in writing, do they later get creative with who they contact if you start ducking their phone calls? I don't intend to spar with them verbally for six months until they give up on me and sell the junk debt, so I wonder what experience people have with facing them for a while on the phone, but then avoiding them after that.

[GoingDown]

If you talk to each creditor at least once, informing them you only want to deal with the issue in writing, do they later get creative with who they contact if you start ducking their phone calls? I don't intend to spar with them verbally for six months until they give up on me and sell the junk debt, so I wonder what experience people have with facing them for a while on the phone, but then avoiding them after that.

I think I can see what you are trying to do. If this is such a major concern to you, then here is what I would do...

Answer their calls, identifying yourself-- which lets them know that this is your correct phone number so they have no reason to contact your relatives, and then let them start their usual script of questions and demands, and then just fall silent. Stop speaking to them and just lay the phone down on the table and waste their time. From time to time, you could pick up the phone and say something like "What did you say? I don't understand you. Could you repeat that?" But don't answer any of their questions. This way, they aren't getting any information from you, but they are getting to make direct contact with you, which is their primary objective, and it is wasting their time. Time is money to them, so eventually, they will move on to the next person on their list of debtors and start calling them instead.

Sometimes I let them listen to whatever I was watching on t.v.-- like "Lord of the Rings" or "V for Vendetta." They know there is someone on the other end of the line but they can't get to me and it is very frustrating for them, which is a good thing. They don't like to waste their time with someone like me.

After about 6 months of doing this, they will forward your account to a third party debt collector or a junk debt buyer, and then you can usually get them to stop calling you by writing them a letter.

[IOIOIO]

I think that's a workable tactic--after identifying myself and informing them the first time that communication is only acceptable in writing. They'd at least have a record of having been told that. I'm just wondering what's going to happen if a creditor encounters never ending busy signals. Will they use their inability to contact me (after that first time) as a reason to branch out to anyone they can?

My only purpose here is to free up my phone and answering machine for normal use as soon as possible, but without giving them a reason to escalate their tactics. I understand they have the right to demand money from me as much as they want.

[GoingDown]

I'm just wondering what's going to happen if a creditor encounters never ending busy signals. Will they use their inability to contact me (after that first time) as a reason to branch out to anyone they can?

My only purpose here is to free up my phone and answering machine for normal use as soon as possible, but without giving them a reason to escalate their tactics. I understand they have the right to demand money from me as much as they want.

They won't be encountering never ending busy signals. They will get to speak to you... briefly... and then get to hear whatever you're currently watching on television. And they'll get to hear you say stuff like "What did you say? Could you repeat that?" and "Could you put that in writing?"

The only reason they would call your relatives is to try to find your phone number so they could speak to you. In the few times they called my relatives they always asked to speak directly to me and when they said I didn't live there, they asked for my phone number. Once they start speaking to you, they will know they have the correct phone number, and so they will just keep calling that number and not waste their time calling relatives to find your phone number, because they already have it.

Caller I.D. is the best way to free up your phone and answering machine for normal use. With it, you can answer the calls from relatives, friends, and business associates immediately, and ignore the calls from creditors, when you don't want to speak to them. I even have the "anonymous call rejection" service on my phone, so any local callers have to identify themselves and the number they are calling from. It even works on long distance residential callers. So, all that's left is easy to identify as debt collectors. They usually come accross the caller I.D. screen as "unavailable", "Out of Area", or "Toll Free".

You have to remember that they won't be calling your phone non-stop, all day long. The worst creditor called me 6 times a day, including weekends. But that doesn't tie up your phone line that much, and you can just pick up the phone and then hang up on them immediately when you see that they are creditors calling you.

You have to remember that the people calling you mainly get paid on commission, so if they waste all their time calling you and you don't pay them any money or even talk to them long enough to get any info about you, then they are going to have a very small pay check at the end of the week. If it is taking up too much of their time and they aren't getting any postive results, they will move on to other people on their list.

What you must avoid at all costs is actually engaging them in a long, meaningful conversation. They will twist everything you say and use it against you, and they will try to find out where you work, how much money you make each month, where you have a checking account, whether you own a house, what kind of car you drive, and many other bits of personal information, etc. This helps them size you up and determine the best plan of attack against you.

[IOIOIO]

They won't be encountering never ending busy signals.

I'm thinking they might encounter a lot of busies, though, due to the number of creditor who will be calling, not just one!

The only reason they would call your relatives is to try to find your phone number so they could speak to you.

That's good news. I heard that they can give your relatives grief while trying to extract more info from them than just your phone number.

What you must avoid at all costs is actually engaging them in a long, meaningful conversation.

No problem there. I've had enough of all the kinds of marketers we face so that I've made my privacy a priority when talking to these types over the phone. The creditor will just get the stonewall after being told to communicate in writing. I'm actually concerned about leaving the phone off the hook and giving them info as to what's on the radio or tv!

[GoingDown]

That's good news. I heard that they can give your relatives grief while trying to extract more info from them than just your phone number.

That usually comes later, when the junk debt buyers and third party collectors are trying to find out if you are worth suing. They especially want to find out about your employment situation.


I'm actually concerned about leaving the phone off the hook and giving them info as to what's on the radio or tv!

Why would you care about them hearing what's on the radio or t.v.?

???

[IOIOIO]

Leaving the phone off the hook listening to the TV gives them just a little more profiling information to add to the database. Plus, who knows what might inadvertently slip out within earshot of the telephone? Paranoid stuff here, but every aspect of you they can glean is just one more clue as to how to come up with an effective way to pressure you. From the info posted here, I guess that's more relevant to dealing with third party collectors.

[brainless twit]

I stopped ALL calls before we actually filed (just filed on Friday). Once we paid the first payment to our attorney, I answered each call and told them they would have to speak with our attorney. I gave them his name and number. Several asked, "Why do we need to call him?" or "Is this regarding bankruptcy?" and I would only say, "My attorney told me that any questions you have can be directed to him." A few got rude and I hung up on them, but most of them took the information.

I actually wrote down the name of the person I spoke with, the date, time, and which CC company they work for. Once they were given attorney info, not a single callback from ANY of them. Now when my phone rings, I know it's someone I want to hear from!

[greengoddess]

Advice from 2 attorneys was...

use caller ID (I'm using on my cell phone) and don't answer the phone at all. Don't talk to them. It's been 2 months of nonstop calls and I've never answered one of their calls..Will be filing BK later this month.

[CindyLou]

each time a creditor called I answered and asked ONE question: What is your correspondance address. I told them no money due to personal issues. Then I sent a letter to the correspondance address or faxed it stating that I could not take personal phone calls at work or I would get fired and that I cannot take phone calls at home related to debt collection due to personal and psychological issues. The calls stopped immediately!!!!! I went two years before filing BK and the calls amost all stopped and didn't start again. It was not a difficult process. I added in the letter that they could ONLY contact me via written correspondance and they were not to make ANY further contact by telephone at ANY number they are to obtain. Good luck