Retainer Agreement says Attorney will not appear at 341 Meeting. Is this common?

[sailing2013]

Is this standard. From the Retainer Agreement:

ADDITIONAL SERVICES: I understand that additional services may be required and, therefore, additional legal fees may be charged by Law Firm. Firm shall not be under any obligation to perform said services in the absence of arrangements for further compensation which are mutually acceptable to Firm and Client(s). Those fees include, but are not limited to, the following:

1. amendment of schedules to add new creditors not disclosed to Firm prior to filing
2. amendment of schedules to change income or expenses,or to add property because not disclosed to Firm prior
to filing
3. attendance at meetings of creditors (Trustee’s Meeting)*
4. responding to an inquiry made by the U.S.Trustee’s Office in connection with a determination on whether to
make a motion to dismiss my bankruptcy case or deny my discharge
5. defending a motion made to dismiss or convert my bankruptcy case
6. defending or opposing any other motion or adversary proceeding filed in my bankruptcy case
7. re-open my file after it has been closed for non-payment
8. reaffirmation hearing or negotiation of any reaffirmation agreement with any creditor(s)
9. filing motions such as Motions to Avoid Liens
10. preparing for and appearing at court-ordered examinations pursuant to FRBP 2004 or depositions (FRBP 7001) or
to written discovery.
11. filing suit against taxing agencies to determine the dischargeability of any tax debt disputed to be discharged by
such agency.

In the vast majority of cases, none of the above additional services will be needed and, if they are, most of the common ones (such as need to amend the schedules) result in a nominal fee (usually $100-$150). If an additional service that will be expensive is anticipated, Firm will have already discussed this with
you(such as the likelihood of a creditor objecting to discharge of their debts). While it is impossible for anyone to know exactly what will happen in any case, Firm has, unless otherwise specified to you, attempted to quote you a fee which will cover all expected costs and fees in your case. To that end, if a matter can be resolved with a couple of phone calls or e-mails (for example, such as settling a motion or adversary objection filed by a creditor) Firm will likely not charge you anything, or a very nominal amount as referenced above.

* There is no need for an attorney at the Trustee’s Meeting in most cases, but Firm is happy to send an attorney to be present with you at the meeting should you so desire. The cost is usually $75 depending on the location of the meeting.

[Pizza]

* There is no need for an attorney at the Trustee’s Meeting in most cases, but Firm is happy to send an attorney to be present with you at the meeting should you so desire. The cost is usually $75 depending on the location of the meeting.

No way would I attend a 341 without my attorney. If it costs $75, I would pay it.

[NoMoreCards]

I attended my 341 without my attorney, it was no big deal. Typically, in a normal straight forward case, you would be fine going it alone.

[AngelinaCat]

Our attorney did not go to our 341, but sent a 'stand-in'.

Usually, from what I have read, if the actual attorney of record does not plan to attend, a stand-in is usually sent. This is especially true of attorneys that are some distance away from the courthouse or wherever you will have your 341.

In our case, we answered all of our questions ourselves and our 'stand-in' didn't have to add anything. Neither did the 'stand-in' for ex Mrs.Hub, whom we accompanied to her 341 for moral support.

[Pjmax]

in retrospect, for many of us with simple 7's, an attorney's presence probably was not needed at the 341. but the way things usually go, when you don't have one, that's when you need one. I'd pay the $75. I hope the rest of his fee is reasonable.

[tobee43]

pay the $75 or shop around for an atty that will do what ours did. give ONE price for the filing, 341, calls emails follow through until the receipt of the discharge and close. extra for AP's and other items mentioned on your list.

[despritfreya]

Personally, I believe it is my duty to appear with my client at the 341 meeting, even if it is to just hold a hand in support. The appearance is included in the fee agreement and is covered by the flat fee charged in a Chapter 7 or, billed on a normal hourly basis for any other Chapter.

The question for OP is whether or not that additional $75 brings the total fee to a level that is average for other attorneys who do not add to their fixed fee to appear.

Des.

[AngelinaCat]

Thanks, Des, for your input.

In our fee agreement with our attorney, it was understood that we would be represented at the 341. She also explained that most likely we would be seeing a 'stand-in', as her office was two hours away from our courthouse, and that she would have a local attorney stand-in. That was agreeable to us. As I said before, there were no problems.

[tobee43]

Personally, I believe it is my duty to appear with my client at the 341 meeting, even if it is to just hold a hand in support. The appearance is included in the fee agreement and is covered by the flat fee charged in a Chapter 7 or, billed on a normal hourly basis for any other Chapter.

The question for OP is whether or not that additional $75 brings the total fee to a level that is average for other attorneys who do not add to their fixed fee to appear.

Des.

i really think you need to semi retire and go teach upcoming atty's in law school ethics LOL!! you are truly a rare breed, many in the legal community need to take a few lessons from you. i said it before and i'll say it again, you are a true hero. an\ shinning example of how and what an atty should be. thank you des!

[ksgirl38]

I assumed most attorneys included attending the 341 as part of their fee for services. Seems odd to me not to include that, but from my experience the attorney didn't do much anyway. Mine just handed over the paperwork and I answered all the questions. Took less than 5 minutes. I guess if you have questions at the 341 or it's a more complicated bk then you might be more comfortable with an attorney there.

[tobee43]

actually this is the first time i have seen it not included. (i'm sure it happens, i just have never seen it), after all, the client supplies the information for the petition, their, (the atty's office, i KNOW not all of them but i have seen it over and over), 18 year old high school flunky inputs the information 200% of the time incorrectly, it's all filed electronically, so i'm not seeing much atty involvement from any atty the way this threads posts reads.

i would hire another atty and not go with this one. just IMPO

[Pizza]

I would imagine a trustee would look at someone without representation at a 341 the same way that a hungry wolf would look at a wounded antelope. I wouldn't want that kind of pressure.

[bcohen]

If I was going to pay for an attorney, I would expect the attorney to do anything and everything required to successfully complete the case, and to quote a reasonable up-front fee that includes everything. I would not tolerate a situation where the fee agreement is not a contract to pay a specific dollar amount for having the case completed, but rather a list of contingencies where "if this happens then you have to pay X amount". Also, if I didn't need an attorney to represent me--which would include appearing at all court proceedings--then I wouldn't hire one simply to fill out and file the forms. I can do that myself (and I am, in fact, doing that myself) for a fraction of the cost.

[LadyInTheRed]

If I was going to pay for an attorney, I would expect the attorney to do anything and everything required to successfully complete the case, and to quote a reasonable up-front fee that includes everything. I would not tolerate a situation where the fee agreement is not a contract to pay a specific dollar amount for having the case completed, but rather a list of contingencies where "if this happens then you have to pay X amount". Also, if I didn't need an attorney to represent me--which would include appearing at all court proceedings--then I wouldn't hire one simply to fill out and file the forms. I can do that myself (and I am, in fact, doing that myself) for a fraction of the cost.

Besides the 341, the list of excluded services is very standard. If an attorney is forced to quote a price that will cover every possible thing that may happen in a case, I guaranty you that the fee is going to be extremely high. I am sure an attorney would be glad to come up with a fee that would cover everything. But, unless the attorney is a fool and quotes low, it is the attorney who is likely to get the better end of that deal.

ETA: If you hire a contractor to come fix a leak behind a wall and fix the damage it has caused, do you expect him to give you guaranteed flat-rate quote that will apply regardless of what he finds behind the wall? If so, the quote is going to assume all the studs behind the wall are rotted and will need to be replaced and you'll be stuck paying that amount even if the studs are fine and only need a little time to dry out. The same will be true if you hire an attorney under the terms you demand.

[bcohen]

I am going to file without an attorney for the simple reason that I don't have any assets to protect which would justify paying for an attorney's fees.

However, back in 2010, when I seriously considered filing with an attorney, I attended consultations with several attorneys, and some proposed charging a basic fee plus additional for various services which might be required, while others proposed an "all inclusive" fee. An attorney who is good at his job should know what to expect from a particular case, assuming that the client was honest in all paperwork and disclosures, and should be able to quote a reasonable price accordingly.