Can a creditor find out about discharge before me?

[footballfan]

According to PACER we are not yet discharged. Filed 12/31/11, and about half of the people who filed same day and was assigned same trustee are still not discharged.

However, car lender just came and towed away our car. The tow driver was informed by car lender that we were discharged.

I emailed my attorney who in very short email "tone" informed me that he has access to the same electronic info as me and was not notified that we have been discharged and he would let us know as soon as he knew.

So, my question is, could we have been discharged and just not have been notified or PACER updated? Did we just get "had" by the car lender?

[AngelinaCat]

Not to knock PACER, but when your discharge appears there, in the next day or two, you will receive paper notification via snail mail from the Post office. If your court is anything like ours, you will get the order directly from the court. At the same time, the notice also goes to your attorney, who will then issue their own paper copy through the mail to you. You may also receive an email or phone call. But so far, the courts consider the U.S. Post Office as the 'official' medium of notice.

I think your automobile lien-holder violated the Automatic Stay, if they did not petition the court to Lift the Stay, so that they could repossess the vehicle.

[footballfan]

Thanks for the reply. I kind of feel that way also.

Can I or should I do anything about it or just let it be?

[frogger]

Two different questions here:

1. Can a creditor know that you are discharged before you? The short answer to that is yes. Your creditors are getting electronic notifications every night of all bankruptcy activity.

2. Can you be discharged and pacer not updated? Yes. You are actually discharged before it is on pacer, for pacer is not the thing that discharges you, your judge does. However, for your creditor to get the discharge order, the discharge must have been uploaded onto pacer for them to have received the ecf notification, therefore you or your attorney would have access to the same documentation as your creditor.

[despritfreya]

If PACER does not show the entry of the discharge then you have not received it and, neither has the lender. ECF notification happens when an entry is made on the docket (and therefore shows up on PACER). Your vehicle was repoed because the automatic stay lifted 45 days after your 341 if you did not take steps to reaffirm. Assuming you did not reaffirm and presumably were delinquent the lender had the right to take back its property - no violation here.

Des.

[footballfan]

Thank you Des!

I was not aware of that 45 day lift of stay -- I thought we were protected until discharge. Sure would have been easier if my attorney had mentioned that.

I guess I feel lucky that we were able to keep it as long as we did.

I'm still perplexed at why it's taking so long to get the actual discharge - our 341 was 1/27 and I've noticed other cases with same 341 date have been discharged.

Need that discharge letter to replace our vehicle. DOH!

[despritfreya]

I'm still perplexed at why it's taking so long to get the actual discharge - our 341 was 1/27 and I've noticed other cases with same 341 date have been discharged.

Two things.

1. Did you file your Debtor Education/Financial Management/Pre Discharge certificate? If "no", you cannot get a discharge until you do. If "yes". . .

2. Your discharge is automatic 60 days after your 341 (assuming no objections) however, it could take the Clerk an additional 30 days to enter it due to being back-logged.

Des.

[footballfan]

Answers --

1. Yes, our debtor ed/etc certificate was filed the day after our 341.

2. Our attorney said we were done, but it's the actual discharge notice/paper we need in hand to consider vehicle financing.

Would it be in poor taste if I contacted the clerk's office to ask about the discharge notice?

Thanks to the board for all the help these past months!

[SMinGA2]

Nothing wrong with calling the clerk IMO. Just be polite, explain that you're following up since its been 2 1/2 months since your 341. You'll probably be discharged within another day or two of making the call.

[AngelinaCat]

Nothing wrong with calling the clerk IMO. Just be polite, explain that you're following up since its been 2 1/2 months since your 341. You'll probably be discharged within another day or two of making the call.

However, since you have an attorney, you may be told that you have to talk to him/her. We had a poster last week tell of a rather rude experience in that regard. Simply say that you are following up and wondering if there is anything missing in your file, etc.

In our case, it was the lack of a copy of our marriage license that was the hold up. We had a copy with us at the 341 as per trustee instructions. When we tried to give it to him, he said he didn't need it. (Our attorney said she had never heard of this be requested before.) As soon as the license we emailed to our caseworker, we wee discharged that very day.