Means Test Expenses

[CoBelle]

Because I had good income until August but nothing since, I'm wondering about the annualized income on the means test...it will of course be ridiculously higher than the $505 /mo I've been living on (plus 890/mo SS since October.)

So I want to make sure I take all my expenses on the means test, since I'm subject to 6 months of 'phantom' income when my 'look back' is annualized.

If I was paying $3000/month on a secured mortgage for investment property, could I include that somewhere on the means test?

How about judgment liens that are secured debts accruing interest but I'm not paying them off monthly?

How about home mortgage that I'm not yet paying...it's accruing plus interst, ex is paying it and taking the tax credits and charging it off of what he was supposed to pay me outright in the divorce?

Sorry for the weird questions....it's kinda a weird case.

[tobee43]

Co...are you filing this pro se...or just being proactive here??

[CoBelle]

Tobee, I have but a week left to finish my paperwork. And no attorney in sight tho I've tried.
I have all my 13 shedules from filing in June , so I'm just copying and correcting from there.
My question is really re the Means test: you probabaly remember that I'm making $1400 per month from August, but prior I was making$8000.
So although my schedules I andJ will show current income and expenses, the means test will come out at @ $65,000.
So on the means test I need to 'show' mortgage,rental expense,even tho until I buyout ex's share or get kicked out of my house I don't have it.
What I did have was $3000monthfor an investment property expense, so I'm wondering where/if I can put it.
Same re judgment liens on the house.
If I can't ....then I still think I'm ok when the trustee sees the cut in income (Since you don't count SS I'm now getting $505/mo and that doesn't even pay for health insurance.

Thanks for your question...yes, I'm doing it on my own or else it would not get done...but remember, I have it all done already from the 13 I filed.

[tcreegan]

Hi CoBelle !

If I was paying $3000/month on a secured mortgage for investment property, could I include that somewhere on the means test? Yup, line 42 ......but any rent goes on line 5 as income....


How about judgment liens that are secured debts accruing interest but I'm not paying them off monthly? you need a schedule of payments and some sort of written document that specifies it. What you would be paying goes on line 42. (But be careful, not all liens get "perfected" and have no claim on you house/house/snowshoes/etc.. They are priority unsecured.)


How about home mortgage that I'm not yet paying...it's accruing plus interst, ex is paying it and taking the tax credits and charging it off of what he was supposed to pay me outright in the divorce?

His payments would be included in your income normally, but he is getting credited w/ court-ordered alimony. This is a little messy, I definitely would ask a lawyer about it.

Good luck CoBelle, keep doinp the paperwork and let us know how you are doing!

Tom in Colo

[newbie2]

If I was paying $3000/month on a secured mortgage for investment property, could I include that somewhere on the means test?


.

CoBelle, since the investment property was deemed to be unsecured in your Chapter 13 filing, can you now state it is a secured mortgage?

[tobee43]

CoBelle, since the investment property was deemed to be unsecured in your Chapter 13 filing, can you now state it is a secured mortgage?

interesting point newbie...but one would hope if they are changing their filing from 13 to 7 it hopefully would not raise eyebrows since the 13 was not a realistic path financially for CO.

also CoBell...i agree with tom on the fact about the mortgage payments your ex is making...this could present a rather convoluted picture...so you are going to have to have this declaration backed up with every document you can to support your position.

[CoBelle]

I don' tknow the answer to that (re the investment prop being deemed unsecure) but I've been wondering a LOT about that. It's funny (not) that the only 'secured' debt is deemed unsecured, while ex filed liens against the house without judgments and in violation of specific fam court orders against it.) I read on Nolo that you have to show all debts and it rec'dwhen you were confused to list things twice and then include an explanation...so I guess that's what i'll do. Thanks, newbie for making me think about it again tho.

Re the home mortgage: its a HELOC taht ex took out on his 40% share of the house. He's 'decided' taht I owe him 60% of the loan and the interest payments, even though he refuses to show me where the money went...I'm supposed to take his word for it hahahahahhahahahahahhaahhahahahahahhahahahahahahah ahahahahahahaha (sorry, I had a bit of a laugh jag there). I'm supposed to pay him when the house sells with the house proceeds, but of course in this 'arrangement' there won't be any proceeds.

You guys have given me good food for thought. I'm going to work hard on this all day!

[tobee43]

I don' tknow the answer to that (re the investment prop being deemed unsecure) but I've been wondering a LOT about that. It's funny (not) that the only 'secured' debt is deemed unsecured, while ex filed liens against the house without judgments and in violation of specific fam court orders against it.) I read on Nolo that you have to show all debts and it rec'dwhen you were confused to list things twice and then include an explanation...so I guess that's what i'll do. Thanks, newbie for making me think about it again tho.

Re the home mortgage: its a HELOC taht ex took out on his 40% share of the house. He's 'decided' taht I owe him 60% of the loan and the interest payments, even though he refuses to show me where the money went...I'm supposed to take his word for it hahahahahhahahahahahhaahhahahahahahhahahahahahahah ahahahahahahaha (sorry, I had a bit of a laugh jag there). I'm supposed to pay him when the house sells with the house proceeds, but of course in this 'arrangement' there won't be any proceeds.

You guys have given me good food for thought. I'm going to work hard on this all day!

just remember to walk away once in a while....just to give you brain a rest....pass out some candy..or something!! LOL!! you're is an extremely interesting situation...it will something to watch as you proceed.

[CoBelle]

So I watched the Broncos lose another heartbreaker, then a few movies, then Sunday night TV...and now its about 1am and I'm finally done , pretty much, with all theschedules and totals. I don't have auto math for these forms, so I did it all longhand. (I trust my brain more than a computer). I ate way too much food and didn't do anything to enjoy Halloween which is one of my favortes. (I live way out in the mountains...so no trick or treaters up here.) Hope everyone had a fun Halloween!

I decided I really didn't need to add my investment property....it was added on line 42 in my 13 but I haven't been paying on it since June.
I also didn't add any of the judgment liens but I really didn't need them. Even if I took off the addditional amounts I added for rental costs up here, I'm still ok
Since I'm in a 7, I guess my J expenses really don't matter so much....I have to take money out of retirement to pay for stuff regardless, and retireement is voluntary and exempt.
Or am I thinking screwy?????????????????????????????????????