cash advantage from credit card for casino gambling could be dischaged or not

[tommy74]

hi all!!!
i took cash advantage from my credit card in casino california and play cards , sometimes i loose, sometimes i win and i return some for couple years. however, now i current have huge debt with some credit card. i want to file bankruptcy. is this debt could be discharged or not in chapter 7. thank you

[newbie2]

The purpose of the debt isn't a problem (gambling) but the timing of it could be. You don't state how old the debt is, nor the last time you took a cash advance. If it is recently then you should hold off on filing to put some distance between the last cash advance and your filing. It will also give you some time to seek some help for your gambling problem so that you don't get in to the same kind of problem again. Good luck to you.

[tobee43]

well tommy...if you took out the advance prior to meeting the 90 period that charge could be challenged.

additionally, i know unless your getting "treatment" for let's just say for an example....a gambling problem, your trustee could still challenge the charges under some other hidden statute...or maybe NOT so hidden...depending on how it's viewed by the court.

i would check with your atty who most likely has a better "entire" picture of your financial situation...they would better be able to determine if that cash advance would set off whistles and bells...

best of luck to you!

[tcreegan]

Hi tommy74,

Not too long ago gambling debts were generally not discharged; but now they are just like any other unsecured debt. The problem comes in if you made false representation in obtaining the cash advance, took the cash advances knowing you could not pay it back, did not make a 'good faith' effort to repay the debt. The other wrinkle would be a trustee calling your gambling trips a 'luxury' This is going to vary by district and by trustee. The solution for all of this is to put some time between the last cc use and the BK filing.

Is the gambling debt the only reason for a BK? If so, then a BK might not be your best option. Especially so if you are relying on winnings to pay for stuff. The case to avoid is running up gambling debt, file BK, running up gambling debt again, now you can't file BK, big financial mess.

Remember; gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math.....

Tom in Colo

ps: my computer is acting weird, hopefully this doesn't double/triple post.....

[newbie2]

well tommy...if you took out the advance prior to meeting the 90 period that charge could be challenged.

additionally, i know unless your getting "treatment" for let's just say for an example....a gambling problem, your trustee could still challenge the charges under some other hidden statute...or maybe NOT so hidden...depending on how it's viewed by the court.

i would check with your atty who most likely has a better "entire" picture of your financial situation...they would better be able to determine if that cash advance would set off whistles and bells...

best of luck to you!

Trustees don't challenge charges, the creditor can via an adversary pleading to object to a certain debts discharge.

[tobee43]

Trustees don't challenge charges, the creditor can via an adversary pleading to object to a certain debts discharge.

with all due respect because i don't wait a thumbs down!! LOL!!!!....but a trustee really can challenge just about anything...

i'm not referring, to, and maybe your misunderstood what i was stating, but i'm not speaking about what the creditor is charging with respect to "overcharging" for i.e. a service, etc. i'm referring to what the debtor has incurred while (charged on i.e. cc's)

[newbie2]

with all due respect because i don't wait a thumbs down!! LOL!!!!....but a trustee really can challenge just about anything...

i'm not referring, to, and maybe your misunderstood what i was stating, but i'm not speaking about what the creditor is charging with respect to "overcharging" for i.e. a service, etc. i'm referring to what the debtor has incurred while (charged on i.e. cc's)

I understood what you said, and the information is not correct. The regular panel trustee does not look at credit card statements to see what is charged to them. The creditor does and has the opportunity to object to the discharge of the particular debt.

The OP is concerned that he may have issues with the debt because it was for gambling purposes. The problem he could run in to is timing, not the trustee objecting to gambling debts.

Go ahead and give me another thumbs down, doesn't matter to me. Until I can trade points for shoes they mean nothing to me.

[backtoschool]

I agree with newbie2. Fraudulent charges are looked at by creditors who file an AP. The definition of fraud here, is charging luxury items over $500 or charging large items (or anything really) within the 90 days before filing for bankruptcy. Going to the casino, taking a huge cash advance, betting it all on red, and losing, and then filing bk one week later, will most likely mean that the credit card company will file an AP and will be guaranteed to win that AP. AP's cost about $5,000 to defend and are separate from the bk filing.

[ab33arch]

I agree with newbie2. Fraudulent charges are looked at by creditors who file an AP. The definition of fraud here, is charging luxury items over $500 or charging large items (or anything really) within the 90 days before filing for bankruptcy. Going to the casino, taking a huge cash advance, betting it all on red, and losing, and then filing bk one week later, will most likely mean that the credit card company will file an AP and will be guaranteed to win that AP. AP's cost about $5,000 to defend and are separate from the bk filing.

dont mean to steal anyone's thread...just a quick question, if they do file an AP and win, are you obligated to pay the entire balance on that card? or is it just the charges made before filing?

[backtoschool]

dont mean to steal anyone's thread...just a quick question, if they do file an AP and win, are you obligated to pay the entire balance on that card? or is it just the charges made before filing?

You are obligated to pay the charges in question, whatever the creditor files the ap for, plus your legal fees, plus their legal fees if you lose an ap. That could end up costing tens of thousands of dollars if the charges in question were high, since their legal fees will be 5k or so and your legal fees will be 5k or so as well.

[tobee43]

I understood what you said, and the information is not correct. The regular panel trustee does not look at credit card statements to see what is charged to them. The creditor does and has the opportunity to object to the discharge of the particular debt.

The OP is concerned that he may have issues with the debt because it was for gambling purposes. The problem he could run in to is timing, not the trustee objecting to gambling debts.

Go ahead and give me another thumbs down, doesn't matter to me. Until I can trade points for shoes they mean nothing to me.

well...to clear the air, first i would like to trade my points for food.
(oh...and that's wasn't ME!) although i guess you thought it was...LOL!! no, it's nice i have some secret person on this site protecting me i guess.

i agree, however, my point was if the creditor ...which i think they would have their butts right there up in the courts face...for some reason did not question the charges the trustee still could and has the right and the ability to do so.

even if the charge is after 90 days there could be some questions...not saying that it will happen, there is just the chance that it could.

if the gambling amount was charges i.e. a cash advance of i.e. 5k every two months up until 90 days prior to filing, thereby, disallowing the creditor to file an advisory proceeding, the trustee could make an exception to the 90 day rule.

personally i know someone this exact situation happened to...so where YOU May feel my response it INCORRECT...it is based on a FACTUAL and ACTUAL situation that occurred to someone that i know.

indeed, each and every AP is charged and cost in excess of one's initial bk fees...as well...so is each and every judgment/liens to be removed.

[backtoschool]

The trustee can question the charges, but usually doesn't. The creditors will file an AP if they think that they can win.

[tobee43]

The trustee can question the charges, but usually doesn't. The creditors will file an AP if they think that they can win.

indeed, and something even when they don't think they can, still do.

[backtoschool]

indeed, and something even when they don't think they can, still do.

Usually creditors will not file an AP unless they have a pretty good case, since it costs them 5k+ to file the AP.

[tobee43]

Usually creditors will not file an AP unless they have a pretty good case, since it costs them 5k+ to file the AP.

with the exception of best buy???