Petitiion Received - questions - help!!

[kbuy]

So my husband is the one that's filing for Chapter 7. He received the peition a couple of weeks ago and I'm trying to get it all filled in properly. (He's been burying his head in the sand and is hopeless when it comes to paperwork).

He needs to get on and do the credit counselling online but until I get all the figures up and ready Im thinking he can't do it just yet.

I've gone through the figures, and it asks for my income - no problem. But I'm paying out roughly $589 a month for credit cards and my car payment and I can't see where I put that in on the petition. Surely if they want my income then they're going to want to know where my money is going??

Oh another quick question - my son has to go to Europe every summer for visitation - I'm liable to pay for the flight - by Court Order. Can I put that too?

We really need to get on with this - his lawyer who isn't very helpful has now sent an e mail asking him to do the credit counselling.

Can anyone help???

[lrprn]

He needs to get on and do the credit counselling online but until I get all the figures up and ready Im thinking he can't do it just yet.

He can do the credit counseling any time. It's helpful to have the actual income and expense figures to do the required course, but it's not required. "Best guess" figures are fine. What's important is to have the successful completion certificate to give to his lawyer before the case can be filed.

I've gone through the figures, and it asks for my income - no problem. But I'm paying out roughly $589 a month for credit cards and my car payment and I can't see where I put that in on the petition. Surely if they want my income then they're going to want to know where my money is going??

On B22A, Line 17 Marital Adjustment - that's where your income that is *NOT* going directly to household support is taken out. If your car payment and cc's are yours alone, then those payments and any thing else that's not directly supporting the household would be removed on this line.

Oh another quick question - my son has to go to Europe every summer for visitation - I'm liable to pay for the flight - by Court Order. Can I put that too?

Ask your husband's lawyer if this is considered a "supporting the household" expense. If it is, then yes, you must leave it in on Line 17. However, if this is *not* considered a "supporting the household" expense, then you would remove it from your income total on Line 17.

I'm just curious - you don't have to answer if you don't want to - but why is your husband filing on his own?

[kbuy]

He can do the credit counseling any time. It's helpful to have the actual income and expense figures to do the required course, but it's not required. "Best guess" figures are fine. What's important is to have the successful completion certificate to give to his lawyer before the case can be filed.

On B22A, Line 17 Marital Adjustment - that's where your income that is *NOT* going directly to household support is taken out. If your car payment and cc's are yours alone, then those payments and any thing else that's not directly supporting the household would be removed on this line.

Ask your husband's lawyer if this is considered a "supporting the household" expense. If it is, then yes, you must leave it in on Line 17. However, if this is *not* considered a "supporting the household" expense, then you would remove it from your income total on Line 17.

I'm just curious - you don't have to answer if you don't want to - but why is your husband filing on his own?

I just thought it would be better for one of us to try and have some sort of good credit - but I'm beginning to regret my decision now - we will be leaving the US this Summer - is it too late for me to join him?

[kbuy]

I just thought it would be better for one of us to try and have some sort of good credit - but I'm beginning to regret my decision now - we will be leaving the US this Summer - is it too late for me to join him?

Sorry everyone - I'm replying to myself! But just as an afterthought - I've been using my creditcards .. and on the figures that I've done today, after deducting everything including my car payment and credit cards we're actually left with something in the region of $134. The one thing that bothers me about joining him in bankruptcy (even if I coudl at this stage), is that if you take out my payments we'd actually be left with a surplus i.e my total payments are $598 but Id have to keep the car going which is $246.

I don't want CHapter 13 - as we're moving out the country I have to get a visa for him, I wont be able to do that if he's still undischarged.

This is just one horrible mess ...

[kbuy]

Sorry everyone - I'm replying to myself! But just as an afterthought - I've been using my creditcards .. and on the figures that I've done today, after deducting everything including my car payment and credit cards we're actually left with something in the region of $134. The one thing that bothers me about joining him in bankruptcy (even if I coudl at this stage), is that if you take out my payments we'd actually be left with a surplus i.e my total payments are $598 but Id have to keep the car going which is $246.

I don't want CHapter 13 - as we're moving out the country I have to get a visa for him, I wont be able to do that if he's still undischarged.

This is just one horrible mess ...

The other thing is, when my husband saw his lawyer, he gave a very rough outline of his expenses - but the silly buggar didn't include any of mine i.e my incomings our outgoings etc etc. On top of that, since his visit - he's now on retirement with a part time job - so ALL of the figures he initially gave his lawyer are completely out of whack!!

[LimpDisc]

I just thought it would be better for one of us to try and have some sort of good credit - but I'm beginning to regret my decision now - we will be leaving the US this Summer - is it too late for me to join him?

Has your husband already filed or just getting paperwork together?

[kbuy]

Has your husband already filed or just getting paperwork together?

No he hasn't filed yet. We've waited months for the peition to arrive and it's only just turned up.

[ranger85]

Ok so I'm the husband of kbuy ... she was showing me what she had said on here and I too need to put in some questions and some sort of clarification.

I had until earlier today, plannined on doing the Chapter 7. My wife though has now told me that if, this is unsuccessful, I may be forced into a chapter 13. If that is the case, then there is no way she could obtain a visa for me to accompany her to Europe> As an "undischarged bankrupt" I would basically not be allowed to enter her home country. As a family, we'd be torn apart. I am 59, if that were the case, I'd be 64ish, by the time I'd be discharged on a Chapter 13. Our feelings right now are that we dont want to take that chance. So, the position is this:

I have not paid my debts since last July. How long, realistically, if I dont persue the chapter 7, could I hold out for? The earliest we could apply for the visa would be the end of March - once granted, we'd be leaving the US at the beginning or middle of April. Basically, I'd be leaving the debts behind and our home.

My wife, though she has paid her credit cards up to now, is thinking that she just wont pay anyone for the next three months and what she doesn't pay will be put aside for moving to another country. (She has to submit 3 months bank statements to the embassy and cant have her debts showing on the statements - they have to be blemish-free.

The other huge worry is I'm on a pension - a local government pension of $1,700 a month. By basically doing a "runner" - can debt collection agencies/etc put a garnish it??

Decisions need to be made bearing in mind that we want to move out of the US - I really don't feel that we can sit back anymore - we really need some solid help here.

[ranger85]

So now I too am replying to myself!!

One of the main reasons for this move is my health is failing, due to a terminal case of COPD. With the move this would extend my life considerably so you can see my reason for wanting to leave.

[MSbklawyer]

I don't want CHapter 13 - as we're moving out the country I have to get a visa for him, I wont be able to do that if he's still undischarged.

This is just one horrible mess ...

Why can't he get a visa (not the credit card, the permission to enter a country) if he's undischarged?

[ranger85]

Why can't he get a visa (not the credit card, the permission to enter a country) if he's undischarged?

Because that's what the requirements are. If he's undischarged then basically we wont be allowed to get the visa.

[ranger85]

Because that's what the requirements are. If he's undischarged then basically we wont be allowed to get the visa.

The country is United Kingdom.

[MSbklawyer]

Because that's what the requirements are. If he's undischarged then basically we wont be allowed to get the visa.

Is that for ANY country or just the one you are going to? Your saying that if you're in chapter 13, you're stuck here and can't leave the country? Wow. You learn something every day.

[ranger85]

Is that for ANY country or just the one you are going to? Your saying that if you're in chapter 13, you're stuck here and can't leave the country? Wow. You learn something every day.

(This is the wife). I don't know about other countries - but I do know that for my country this applies.

[lrprn]

The earliest we could apply for the visa would be the end of March - once granted, we'd be leaving the US at the beginning or middle of April. Basically, I'd be leaving the debts behind and our home.

Depending on which country you are moving to, some have reciprocation through Ch 15 (yes, as of 2005 there's a Ch 15 that deals with bankrupt persons who move out of the country to avoid their debts - see http://www./2007/09/06/chapter-15-ba...cy-chapter-15/ for the details.)

Also keep in mind that if you two do ever return to the States, your debts with all the penalties and late fees will be waiting for you for many years.

The other huge worry is I'm on a pension - a local government pension of $1,700 a month. By basically doing a "runner" - can debt collection agencies/etc put a garnish it??

It depends on whether your pension is safe from garnishment, and that is going to depend to some extent on your state's pension laws and the customs and prior case law in your local courts. You need expert legal advice to know whether your pension can be garnished or not.

Decisions need to be made bearing in mind that we want to move out of the US - I really don't feel that we can sit back anymore - we really need some solid help here.

What you two *REALLY* need to do is set up free initial consultations with at least 3-4 experienced bk lawyers in your area. Your situation is unusual, and you need expert legal advice, not the well-meaning but potentially 100% wrong advice you may get here from complete strangers on the internet who aren't bankruptcy lawyers (well, 99.9% of us aren't bk lawyers anyway )

Set up those appointment and lay everything out. Find out where you stand and what your options might be so you can make an informed decision that's the best thing to do for your family in the long run. Keep us posted about what you find out, ok? Good luck!