Over Median = UST involvement/fraud suspect?

[PacificBlue]

I have to chime in here as I'm really curious about this subject. We are over too, but told we could go either way. We are still trying to figure out what is going to be the best road for us. So reading all this helps!

[dakota112]

So if I am under the median, secured is more than $100k and sch J is -5,500, no asset except for tax return, and future increase in income is uncertain at this time how does UST interpret this?

[tlcabk]

Our attorney told us that most attorney's would tell us to file a 13, but that he was willing to file a 7. However, He needed us to understand that it could go either way and we needed to be prepared for that. We filed a 7 and had our uneventful 341 and now are waiting for the 10 day mark to pass to see if the UST bothers with us. The UST was at the 341 and left before ours so I'm hoping no interest. After that, then it's just the 60 day club waiting for discharge.

Remember a few things:

This is your life and your future: fight for it and don't sit back and expect an attorney or anyone else to care as much about it as you do. In the end, it's a job for him and he's personally not as vested in the outcome as you are/will be. Not that they are bad because they are not. It's just the fact of the matter.

Do your homework and research. I have found this site and the people on it to be SO very helpful and calming. (I did not get that from my attorneys office they are too busy).

Unfortuantely, the reality of our personal situations (what we truly pay to exist) are not what matters to the courts. A set of standards have been put in place and if you fit outside that box, you have to be willing to plead your case and not get a cookie cutter BK. Like you said in another post, your's is a very unique situation and will have to stand on it's own (zebra). Your's just may be the case that helps many others that come on this forum, so please stick around and help others as you are helped.

I would come away from this site with many questins and I would email those questions to my attorney in one email.

The more time you spend searching this site, the more information you will find, the better educated you will become and the more you can help your attorney help you. I wish I would've found this forum sooner.

[justbroke]

So when the UST gets involved, what sorts of things do they ask for... or will they even necessarily ask for anything? Is it just on a case by case basis? So if we are $7K over the median and have a negative DMI by around $100 and schedule J meets my state's allowances.. would they want more bank statements, tax returns, etc? (I don't care if they do - nothing to hide - just want to make sure I know where all of it is before I even go to the attorney).

You can tell when the UST is involved because they usually start asking for a lot of paperwork! They also have someone from the UST's office attend your 341 Meeting to ask questions while you are under oath.

What they ask for is too subjective, but suffice it to say, that it's documentation including, but not limited to, bank statements for up to 2 years, credit card statements for up to 2 years, utility bills, proof of child care payments, proof of charitable contributions, anything that they are "questioning" on your Schedule J.

We are over too, but told we could go either way. We are still trying to figure out what is going to be the best road for us.

Yes, it could go either way if you're over the median. Sometimes, your attorney provides sufficient documentation to the Trustee and before the 341 Meeting, that covers all the UST's concerns. You just can't speculate on this. If your attorney feels that the documentation that you have (or can get) is sufficient to pass the UST's curiosity and interest in your case, then you just sit back and see if the UST even wants to look deeper at your case.

[justbroke]

So if I am under the median, secured is more than $100k and sch J is -5,500, no asset except for tax return, and future increase in income is uncertain at this time how does UST interpret this?

The red flag is the unsecured being over $100K, not the secured. If your unsecured is under $100K, and with the numbers you just presented, the UST probably doesn't want anything to do with you. They can only review so many cases, and their system appears to work (catch the folks that should be in Chapter 13s). They can't possibly scrutinize every case.

How int he world is your Schedule J $-5,500? wow!

[dakota112]

Hi Justbroke.
I was a physician in my past world and have alot of expenses I need to continue making if I want to hold onto my medical license, ie maintenance of certification, licensing fees, omgoing malpractice insurance, books, and so on. My current income is just a couple thou a month as I only do part time work as I prepare to embark on a new career and go back to college, which will be part time also. I just am burnt out from practicing medicine after 25 years and can't do it anymore in this environment. I will keep my license however and family will help me until I get a masters in business which hopefully in 2 or 3 years I can put to good use unless our economy totally craps out.
As always I appreciate your help and thoughts.

[PacificBlue]

tlcabk, JustBroke, (and everyone) We really need to post a new question on the site, but I already feel like a post-monger. It deals on this issue, and we need all the advise we can get. (in addition to our lawyers).

[want2save]

I was well over $100,000 in unsecured debt (not medical) and the UST did not get involved in any way. Perhaps it was because I was a real estate broker and it made sense that I'd been living on credit cards in this horrible market!

Discharged 9/21/2009

[coolmom04]

I was well over $100,000 in unsecured debt (not medical) and the UST did not get involved in any way. Perhaps it was because I was a real estate broker and it made sense that I'd been living on credit cards in this horrible market!

Discharged 9/21/2009

And you were over the median, too?? Maybe I'll get lucky and they won't get involved. We're only 7K over the median and have about 50K in cc debt.. we have four kids. I won't hold my breath though

[JEM]

And you were over the median, too?? Maybe I'll get lucky and they won't get involved. We're only 7K over the median and have about 50K in cc debt.. we have four kids. I won't hold my breath though

We're under the median---but probably AT the $100K mark--so I'm sweating this a little bit too.

[coolmom04]

We're under the median---but probably AT the $100K mark--so I'm sweating this a little bit too.

The sweating really sucks, doesn't it? While I know I'm not doing anything wrong, it sucks not knowing whether someone else is going to think we are.

[liboton21]

I was above the median by 8k on annualized monthly income but with high mortgage and family of six, I passed the means test. I have 65k of unsecured debt and upside down on my property.

[coolmom04]

I was above the median by 8k on annualized monthly income but with high mortgage and family of six, I passed the means test. I have 65k of unsecured debt and upside down on my property.

So the UST did get involved with your case?

[want2save]

No, I was way under median and that was what drove me to file the BK.

[dakota112]

Actually I typed my response wrong. I am over $100k in UNSECURED debt(not secured). My atty when we file next month said she is not worried about the UST getting involved. The case is what it is and thats that. High Neg J number, median future income, and under the median at time of filing.