What should I do with this bill?

[Kingxray]

Hi all,

We are surrendering a house in our BK that once had renters in it. In our BK we also included a gas bill for that property in the amount of approx. $400. Today I got a bill from the gas company for $200 for the month of Oct/Nov. of this year. What should I do with this bill? We had all the utilities turned off. Obviously the bank or someone is keeping the heat on in the house and we are getting the bill. Can't get a hold of lawyer's aide until tomorrow. Thanx.

[justbroke]

If you only filed against the Utility company and did not specifically "cancel" your service... the Utility was correct to start a new bill!

This is exactly what happened to me, but with electricity. First, I thought they were going to shut me off anyhow when I filed. I had moved out. What the electric company did do, was cancel the old account, create a new account, and continued billing! I had to pay it because it was "post-petition".

Unless you can prove that you canceled the service prior to the billing date... you owe the bill.

[Kingxray]

If you only filed against the Utility company and did not specifically "cancel" your service... the Utility was correct to start a new bill!

This is exactly what happened to me, but with electricity. First, I thought they were going to shut me off anyhow when I filed. I had moved out. What the electric company did do, was cancel the old account, create a new account, and continued billing! I had to pay it because it was "post-petition".

Unless you can prove that you canceled the service prior to the billing date... you owe the bill.

Wow really?! We had all the utilities turned off sometime last summer. Is that the same as canceling them? I don't know who had the utilities turned back on but we never received a bill until today.

[StartingOver08]

When you turned off the gas, did you call and cancel the account with the provider? If you did, see if you have either the person you spoke with or a confirmation number so you can fight this.

Also, has the property title changed yet to the bank's name? If it is in the bank's name, then you don't owe it and it is a billing error that you need to correct. However, if the property is still in your name, you will need to formally cancel the service again (in writing). Some utilities will continue to accure whether you use the services or not, for example, the water and sewer charges here in Fl accrue even if the house is vacant and the service has been shut off.

Sometimes the bank has the property preservation dept turn on the utilities to the property in order to conduct inspections etc. Sometimes the utility company bills the wrong person. In any event, if in fact you still are on title to the property, then it is considered post petition debt. I would check into it right away so no more charges accrue under your name.

[Kingxray]

When you turned off the gas, did you call and cancel the account with the provider? If you did, see if you have either the person you spoke with or a confirmation number so you can fight this.

Also, has the property title changed yet to the bank's name? If it is in the bank's name, then you don't owe it and it is a billing error that you need to correct. However, if the property is still in your name, you will need to formally cancel the service again (in writing). Some utilities will continue to accure whether you use the services or not, for example, the water and sewer charges here in Fl accrue even if the house is vacant and the service has been shut off.

Sometimes the bank has the property preservation dept turn on the utilities to the property in order to conduct inspections etc. Sometimes the utility company bills the wrong person. In any event, if in fact you still are on title to the property, then it is considered post petition debt. I would check into it right away so no more charges accrue under your name.

I'm not sure if having the gas turned off is considered canceling the account. I did this months ago and never got a name or confirmation number.

The bank is in the middle of the foreclosure process. Not sure whose name it is in as of now. We got a letter from the water company this summer that they were going to put a lien on the property if we did not pay the bill. Our lawyer said to ignore it, which we did.

I believe it is an error on the gas company and they billed the wrong person. Why am I still responsible for paying it? I didn't have the gas turned back on. What happens if I don't pay?

[StartingOver08]

Some utilities, like the water company, will put a lien on the property. In that case it really does not matter to you because the next person has to pay the lien in order to get service.

I'm not sure how your gas company works. You might want to hop on their website and check to see the remedies that are allowed utilities in the state where the property is located. Cross check the information with the state statutes to see what the allowable remedies are too.

[justbroke]

I believe it is an error on the gas company and they billed the wrong person. Why am I still responsible for paying it? I didn't have the gas turned back on. What happens if I don't pay?

You may first want to call the gas company and tell them that you canceled the service months ago, and ask why you're receiving a bill. At least that would let you know why they are billing you. It may be an error, and until we know the gas company's position, we can't offer any other suggestions.

[backtoschool]

If you did not call the utility company and officially cancel the service and turn the service officially over to the bank, then most likely you will be liable for the bill.

The utility company has to have someone else to bill before they will stop billing you. If they do not completely turn off service, then you are still liable if they have not set up a new account with the bank.

[Kingxray]

Okay I talked to the gas company. They closed the account when they got the BK papers and then opened it back up the next day! They said they had no record of me closing the account. I checked back on my paperwork and I closed it in 2008! They told me to send paperwork to prove we moved out and that the bank took over the property and they would cancel the bill. I have some foreclosure paperwork from the mortgage company but I don't think the bank has "officially" taken over the property. I'm not sure when that occurs. I don't know how to prove that we moved out in March of 2007 What a cluster!

[Kingxray]

Oh one more thing...I may be all wet but the gas company is included in our BK and our BK is still pending. Could this be an automatic stay issue?

[music12]

isn't whoever asked to turn the utilities on again responsible? if somebody called pretending to be the OP, then they committed fraud. if somebody called not pretending to be the OP, then they should pay for it.

is somebody living there using the utilities? if not, then they can't possibly be $200. if yes, they should pay it.

[music12]

you moved out in march 2007 but closed it only in 2008? weird.

anyway, you can prove you moved out by proving you had a different address in 2008, and hopefully different utility bills in 2008. seems simple enough, no? plus, if your bill was $0 for all of 2008, how could anyone say the account was not closed? this is very confusing!

[justbroke]

Oh one more thing...I may be all wet but the gas company is included in our BK and our BK is still pending. Could this be an automatic stay issue?

This is not an automatic stay issue. Utility Companies have their own special section of the Bankruptcy Code in 11 USC 366! The automatic stay as to them, unfortunately, is 20 days.

I believe that the Gas Company's statement about showing the the Bank took over... will be your Achilles's heel. For some reason, the gas was turned back on when you BK'd them. I don't think you actually canceled or closed the account. I think you only stopped the billing somehow. Is someone living there?

You may be able to argue that there was no billing from the time you "shut off" the service and the BK. That would be proof that they shouldn't have done anything. However, you may need to file a Motion with the Bankruptcy Court to get this resolved.

[Kingxray]

you moved out in march 2007 but closed it only in 2008? weird.

anyway, you can prove you moved out by proving you had a different address in 2008, and hopefully different utility bills in 2008. seems simple enough, no? plus, if your bill was $0 for all of 2008, how could anyone say the account was not closed? this is very confusing!

I know it is very confusing. Sorry I wasn't more clear. We moved out in March of 2007 and kept the utilities on until renters moved in on Nov. 1 2007 in which they paid the bill until Oct of 2008. After they moved out we paid the bill until that summer when I canceled gas service.

Good idea about supplying the utility bills from our new home. I don't think I saved them from that long ago but maybe I can find something on their website. Thanks again.

[backtoschool]

I know it is very confusing. Sorry I wasn't more clear. We moved out in March of 2007 and kept the utilities on until renters moved in on Nov. 1 2007 in which they paid the bill until Oct of 2008. After they moved out we paid the bill until that summer when I canceled gas service.

Good idea about supplying the utility bills from our new home. I don't think I saved them from that long ago but maybe I can find something on their website. Thanks again.

You will only be responsible up until the time you formally cancelled the service. I am assuming you have some sort of proof of cancellation that can be sent to them, and that should suffice.