Messy divorce/BK Questions HELP !!

[nogreen]

Hello again peoples .... Looking for some answers or would like to chat with anyone who is/was in my situation ...

I was granted a divorce in early 08. All other issues were not resolved due to uncooperation from the ex & his stalling atty. HE filed BK7 after our divorce & lied all thru it. He told them assetts/liabilities/CS/Custody was all finalized & it was not. We were divorced ONLY. He dismisses thru his atty any claim I have to any property, but he did not list certain property in the exemptions. The BK "stay" ? prevented me from collecting my/our property. In an upcoming "property division settlement" My stance is that property not reported on the BK is property he says, under oath, that he does not own or possess. Then it would be mine, right ? He also did not tell them he sold a vehicle, just months before filing. That "marital" vehicle would also be mine then, right?

There's alot more to this, but let me start here.

Another quickie question for anyone with any experience/knowledge ....

His BK was granted a few months ago. Can I, at this point, file an adversary proceeding, or is that required to be done DURING the process, before debts have been dismissed ??

[AngelinaCat]

His BK was granted a few months ago. Can I, at this point, file an adversary proceeding, or is that required to be done DURING the process, before debts have been dismissed ??

If by 'granted' you mean that his debts were discharged, then yes, you have no recourse. You would have had to file an Adversary Proceedure within the 60 day period for Objections From Creditors. And APs are very costly.

For the rest, unfortunately I have no suggestions right now. Other members who are/have been in your shoes will be chiming in I am sure.

Best wishes.

[whipster1]

These are questions best presented to a BK attorney. It is possible to have a case reopened and the discharge revoked if fraud can be shown...but you must have a TON of money and a GOOD attorney to try something like that, and I think only the UST or the Panel Trustee for his case can do that.

[nogreen]

These are questions best presented to a BK attorney. It is possible to have a case reopened and the discharge revoked if fraud can be shown...but you must have a TON of money and a GOOD attorney to try something like that, and I think only the UST or the Panel Trustee for his case can do that.

thanks. Do u know if there is a time frame to re-open a case?? I don't have a ton of $$ (why I'm here too) but I may in the future. I would like to pursue. He fraudulantly obtained a business CC when he never had a business, aka lied on the app. As far as the vehicle is concerned, there was a title transfer somewhere, right. Doesn't anyone check into these things. As far as "property" is concerned, a final divorce decree post dated to the BK would be sufficient "proof" ? We are still attempting to settle our matters, almost a year later.

Also : If you do not tell of all debts, are the ones that have not been exposed to BK, still subjected to the final discharge. Say you have 2 BOA CC's but only report one. Can BOA #2 still attempt to collect & seek a judgement ??

Thank you in advance for any assistance.

[AngelinaCatHub]

NEVER to rebut Mrs. C. but I believe you could Motion the Court to reopen this bk for Fraud. You must have your "ducks in the row" and can prove it.

If I were you, (I am a man, husband, etc.) I'd nail his a$$. He has Efd you over and I think it worthy to get anything within the marriage that he has not claimed. A lawyer letter could just intimidate him into doing same, without going for AP or turning his bk open again. In other words, you truly are holding the spades, but must have a good lawyer. 'Hub

[nogreen]

Basically he walked from all his debts (ours were ALL separate during the marriage). He wrecked a vehicle, high as a kite & incurred 100k in debt on top of years of free-fall spending on CC's. Naturally no tests were performed at the accident to show intoxication. But I know my ex. He spent eradically for YEARS & left me to pay all the household expenses. So I leave, still paying on CC's that were in my name SOLELY, with hopes of getting an equitable division down the road in procedures. (The CC's in my name were used by him (shopping) & also by me, as an attempt to "help" get it all paid off with lower interest. I actually never swiped ANY of those cards myself (mine or his). We purchased a piece of furniture about 6 months before the separation. He has withheld EVERYTHING from me (and our kid) & dodged & ducked, lied etc etc. This furniture bill (which I have paid over $1500) is now in collections with $2600 still owed. I have quit paying for something I don't even have, at this point. In a recent family court hearing, it was said that his BK protected him & his belongings (not listed) & prevented me from even getting my own clothing & personal effects. His lawyer is knowledgeable on BK (although he didn't use him or even inform him of his doings at the time), mine is not & I don't think the judge is either. He even remarried days before filing, so he could use the extra dependants to qualify & pass the means test. This jackA$$ is a fraud in every sense of the word & I'd love to nail him. I've done "some" research & you are required to disclose EVERYTHING.

Thank you CatHub for seeing this for what it is, with very little information. However, the courts, in my experience, have not been helpful to me. I don't know if it is even worth pursuing. Things are still not finalized in divorce court. In that recent hearing, it was said, what is is what is. Each has what they have, then I get a letter, a week later from his atty bringing property back to the table. He's saying I have (minor) valuables of his (which I don't) but he didn't list them on the exemptions even. There is even a place that says do u own something that is in someone else's possession & he said NO. That said, I have nothing & **that is the truth **. Except a trail of destruction left for me to deal with, on his behalf.

I wish I would have contested this back then ( I did call the trustee & tell him & I attempted to call the fraudulent CC & inform them but they didn't want to hear it) They actually were very hostile to me & I was on their side. I was too wrapped up in my own issues at the time to get in the middle of that, & my atty at the time said that his BK would relieve ME of his debts, but that mine were still on the table & I could nail him for half, at the least. He did not list my (our marital) debts on his filing.

[MrSmithster]

maybe it would be better for you to put this all behind you and look into filing for BK yourself. it doesnt sound like you have the funds to contest his discharge, he seems to have alot of his "ducks in a row". to me, its not worth it. im divorced and live with my son so i speak from experience. you will be keeping him in your life even longer while you go thru all the legal procedings, and if he acted this horrible after divorce, i would wonder what the future would be with him back in your life. do you trust him with your kid? would he ever hurt my kid? he sounds kinda spooky. and by getting him out of your life, you can stop feeling bad about your past decisions. i know i had to question myself on why i was putting up with so much crap for so long, and realized, i also had to change, and not let people take advantage of me(yes, even people we love(d)). i really wish you and your kid all the best in whatever you decide

[nogreen]

That's what I'm trying to do. After that recent court hearing & further attempts to collect & divide "our" property equitably (FAIR not necessarily equal), it was said, that what is is what is in terms of property & debts (mine). It was devastating, to say the least, when I was told all along that he was gonna have to pay for some of this. Now he comes, again to attempt to take what very little I have. I thought this was finally done & I could proceed, however I am still in the family courts over this. The property is not worth the cost it is to argue, and after many years later, is likely either gone, removed, damaged, etc. It is not I who keeps bringing these issues to the surface, it is brought to me. After looking over everything carefully, if he wants to bring the matters back to the table, than my stance is he is a liar, in general life, in this family court & also in the federal court. And needs to be held to his "truthful statements". He doesn't have his ducks in a row, he doesn't know what he is doing really & is mentally ill. I have been on the losing end & I think there needs to be consequences for misconduct, on all levels. That is the only way I see it may stop (and likely not even then).

The problem is, at the moment, he is in my life. NO I do not trust him with our kid & YES I feel he would hurt the child (and HAS) & YES I believe he may kill me (or US) oneday. I am working on all these issues presently, which is why I am broke. HE has dragged me into court over crap, over & over again. Hearings are not cheap. HE is damaging our kid & where I live, even crazy parents have rights. You need substantial proof before even attempting that battle. I believe I have it, but it's all a very costly process. Lawyers $200/hr, therapists & psychologists $150/hr. If I could get him out of our lives, permanently, I could move on & proceed with my life. Almost 2 years later, we are divorced, but the other issues STILL remain.

Had I known the chips would fall the way they have, I would have quit paying my debts LONG ago & had a bunch of $$ stockpiled somewhere, & proceed w/the bankruptcy. I thought I could conquer the debts, but I cannot continue to pay for this furniture that I will never see again. (which I have paid the total cost back already ... the $2600+ is interest)

The option is either stay afloat or go for bust ..... guess I'm going bust. I do not plan to file right away. With the doctor/lawyers bills piled up, a BK lawyer is WAY in the future. I'm here, trying to learn as much as I can, before that day comes.

Thank you, sincerely for the well wishes ;-)

[killinstinct]

maybe it would be better for you to put this all behind you and look into filing for BK yourself. it doesnt sound like you have the funds to contest his discharge, he seems to have alot of his "ducks in a row". to me, its not worth it. im divorced and live with my son so i speak from experience. you will be keeping him in your life even longer while you go thru all the legal procedings, and if he acted this horrible after divorce, i would wonder what the future would be with him back in your life. do you trust him with your kid? would he ever hurt my kid? he sounds kinda spooky. and by getting him out of your life, you can stop feeling bad about your past decisions. i know i had to question myself on why i was putting up with so much crap for so long, and realized, i also had to change, and not let people take advantage of me(yes, even people we love(d)). i really wish you and your kid all the best in whatever you decide

I have to echo this, as a survivor of a HORRIBLE divorce. If I were you, I'd find a way to move on and make life better for YOU. I'm sorry but the legal system will not protect you, will not give you a sense of justice, and will not make you feel validated. It is expensive, tiresome, and painful.

You need to focus your efforts on moving on. As the sayings go, "Karma is a ....." and "what goes around". Just live your life. You are not helping yourself seeking this kind of retribution.

[MrSmithster]

maybe look into some womens groups that might help provide legal assistence and advise. what state are you in? i actually paid my ex off to get her outta court and my life, its one of the reasons i filed. i would rather live with my BK past, and have her paid off and content, then to keep being dragged into court every 6 months, facing the unkown. the courts failed me and my son, so i had to come up with my own plan to save my son. maybe i broke the law, but i have to admit, i knew i was going to have to file in the future, so i offered her a deal, i would pay off all her debts by maxing out my credit, she allows me custody, and signs an agreement that all future support/rights are waived for this lump some payout. she got debt free, i got my son, and a BK on my record. sounded fair to me. of course, she could always come back and start it all over, but now i have my "ducks in a row" and she would have to show somehow this arrangement is hurting our son(hes 12). but my ex is now not so bitter/revengeful. she sees him on the weekends, and we even get along kinda ok now.
when i said your ex has his ducks in a row, i was refering to the legal aspect as he seems to have had shrewed legal advise and the ball seems to be in his court(sorry, no pun intended). at one point i almost maxed out all my credit and moved to Hawaii to hide out, just to get away from it all, that how desperate i was for my sons well being. then i thought if i get caught, i lose my son for sure, so i hatched my plan to pay her off and file BK. i received nothing close to fairness from the family courts, so i know how frustrating it is. i almost went crazy. i know you wont beleive me, but as a dad in family court, the chips seemed stacked against me from the get go. not many dads fighting for custody, our judges seem to bend over backwards to give moms the benefit of the doubt, but that was most concerning custody. i was so broke at filing, i had to go Pro Se, so thats another option for you, if you dont have money to file, but feel you will have to some day. again good luck, and keep us post on developments.

[LuciluS]

We met with our Bankruptcy Attorney last September and we are filing on 9/30/09. It might be helpful to set up a few Free Consultations with some Attorney's and let them advise you how to handle the mess.

We stopped paying our CCs late last Sept. too and most were sent to Collection Agencies. Got phone calls, but didn't answer them. Nobody tried to sue us and we had credit cards with just about every Creditor except Discover. We had 4 Citicards and 2 Chase cards & others plus we included some Medical expenses also.

Just an Idea.

PS I went through a divorce in 1993 after 32 1/2 yrs. of marriage. I didn't hire a lawyer. I knew what my rights were & his Attorney did try to pull a fast one on me, but I caught it. He was going to include 1/2 of the equity of the house into my share of Ex's 401K plan, which would have meant I would pay taxes on it, if I withdrew it. Nada. I got a check for the equity in the house.

[MrSmithster]

to follow up...i would never suggest to anyone to follow my actions, i am only giving my opinions and relaying my experience.

[shabam]

You many not need any funds to pursue this. If you build a solid case and forward it to his Trustee and the local UST, he can be up for fraud. They themselves will reopen and pursue the matter considering he lied under oath. Hiding assets under bankruptcy is a huge offense. The key is that you must build a solid case, with supporting evidence, and forward it to both the Trustee and UST.

They have up to one year after the case is closed to reopen the case. Time is the key here. Therefore, sending all of this information while the case has not been closed yet, gives you a better chance of catching this guy out. If he lied under oath, you will not need to file an AP or follow it up yourself. The UST will do so. With the advice of a competent lawyer, you will build a solid case, as a UST is not going to pursue this on opinions or hunches alone.

[MrSmithster]

i hope your in a far away district as most are overloaded to the max. getting a tt to do investigation based 1 persons alligation of fraud(and his ex on top), and except him to put his time and effort into it would be great, but unrealistic i would think. tt's get paid by the case, nothing in it for them to do an investigation, unless its outright obvious. i jkust cant see my tt doing that, he was so overwhelmed. why my discharge took over 4 months. hate to sound like a downer.