accepting a better job

[neveragain09]

So, backtoschool, if you had an opportunity that would raise your income over the median income after the closing of your bankruptcy, would you turn it down? What do you think are the chances that the UST or TT go back and look at your income after closing to see if it has changed so that they could reopen the case. I can understand about the lottery or an inheritance, but what if you just have a better opportunity come up or decide to change professions and you made more money? It seems like once the case is closed you should be able to have a fresh start and try to better your income if possible.

[ForumReader]

I am curious, so after a case is closed, how long is a TT or an UST allowed to have in order to re-open the case? Let's say, my case gets closed (if everything goes well with my 341) on Nov 20th. In let's say April 2010 I winh some big lottery from my state, will the TT or UST get involved?

[backtoschool]

So, backtoschool, if you had an opportunity that would raise your income over the median income after the closing of your bankruptcy, would you turn it down? What do you think are the chances that the UST or TT go back and look at your income after closing to see if it has changed so that they could reopen the case. I can understand about the lottery or an inheritance, but what if you just have a better opportunity come up or decide to change professions and you made more money? It seems like once the case is closed you should be able to have a fresh start and try to better your income if possible.

I think it's all about the numbers. If I got a job offer that was significantly more than what I made when I filed, and I made significantly more than the median before my six month look back period, I would turn that job down, but that is just me. PLEASE don't flame me for this folks, that is my PERSONAL decision and your mileage may vary.

I spent quite a few years in a defacto debtor's prison because I made too much for a chapter 7, and my chapter 13 plan would have been $3,000 a month or more which I could not afford. I do not want to be in that situation again. Believe me the trustees have seen it all, and there are a lot of people who given the chance, will get their income down for six months just to file chapter 7, then go back to their former income. When I was considering chapter 13 a year or so ago, I had three different lawyers advise me to QUIT MY JOB, lol.

Now in my case, I am changing careers and my new career will not be a high paying career, so filing for bankruptcy gives me a chance to make changes in my life without being chained to my past mistakes (both career choice mistakes and debt mistakes )

I think having a huge change in income right after you file is a red flag. Only you can define what is a "huge" change in income.

Believe me, it was no fun going to my 341 and having the trustee look at my last two years tax returns and glare at me. I do NOT want to rock the boat further.

[debtmonster]

I still want to know the mechanism that triggers the tipping off to the UST. Is there software out there that polls your social security # and tells the court how much money you're making or depositing in your bank accounts or when you've transferred property into your name? This has been the unanswered question forever now.

I don't think a UST is a mind reader. SOMETHING has to tip them off. Does somebody rat you out and get a reward? What exactly sets off these red flags? I know if you won the lotto, by law you have to disclose this. But that's "you" tipping them off.

I am dieing to know the answer to know how UST's know when you've run into good fortune.

[desertgrl74]

i'll just ask my atty

If I do get a job then I would go from making about 23,000 year to about 39,000 a year. I'm just going to call my atty and ask. We'll see. I've been waiting for this day to come and starting my career! It's been long over due and it all depends on a lot of things. I may not get an offer yet, but there's a good chance I will within the next two or three weeks. And my meeting is in 5 weeks. I'll be able to find out tomorrow from my atty. I hate this and can't wait for it to be over!

[backtoschool]

If I do get a job then I would go from making about 23,000 year to about 39,000 a year. I'm just going to call my atty and ask. We'll see. I've been waiting for this day to come and starting my career! It's been long over due and it all depends on a lot of things. I may not get an offer yet, but there's a good chance I will within the next two or three weeks. And my meeting is in 5 weeks. I'll be able to find out tomorrow from my atty. I hate this and can't wait for it to be over!

Desertgrl74, in your situation I don't think there would be any problem with the trustee at all!

Enjoy your new career and don't be worried about the trustee, I don't see any problem with your situation. I will keep my fingers crossed on you getting that offer!

[killinstinct]

My 2008 tax return showed income of over $175k (I lived in nyc so that is not as much as it sounds) but I got laid off in January and no longer have that income. My lawyer told me under no uncertain terms that I should not even think about taking a job in that salary range for at least six months after my case closed.

Holy crap! $175K, that does sound like a lot, but then again, $100K is pretty much middle class these days (especially with kids), much less living in NY.

[backtoschool]

Holy crap! $175K, that does sound like a lot, but then again, $100K is pretty much middle class these days (especially with kids), much less living in NY.

I agree killinstinct, $175k does sound like a lot, but in nyc it is definitely a middle class income. I overspent a bit on my apartment ($4,000 a month when I could have gotten one for $3,500 a month) but that's it. Every other expense I had little control over including utilities that were three times the national average, taxes, and parking fees, and insurance rates that were way higher than most places, and $1,500 a month student loan payments. If I count eating out or ordering carry out when I was too tired from working 75 hours a week to cook, I probably spent about $600-700 a month total (including the $500 a month extra rent I paid for a nicer, newer apt, with a "view") than the absolute minimum I could have spent. It was really weird, but at that salary, I really did not have much money for extras, which is why I ended up slowly and gradually accumulating credit card debt.

As I have stated in other posts, my expenses are ONE FIFTH in the midwest than what they were in nyc, and I live in a very nice area with a decent quality of life.

[killinstinct]

That is absolutely amazing. I love NY but I cannot possibly imagine trying to make a living there, much less raise a family with a decent standard of living. My grandfather always said "the more you make, the more you spend"...good example of that I guess.

I can relate. If you would have told me in college I would make close to $100k a year, I may have crapped myself. My buddies and I were excited about $40K or so (this is only about 10 years ago, I'm not that old). But man, it's hard with kids and everything, you spend EVERY PENNY and then some...(median in our area for our family size is about $90K). Oh yeah, and ugly divorces/custody battles that drag on for years don't help much either, your new spouse losing their job, the real estate market collapsing. Life can be really interesting...that was our situation.

[debtmonster]

Yep... I was peaking out at $90k and was alway broke. Housing and car expenses ate a huge chunk. I was paying $2000/mo. for 3 cars and $500/mo. for fuel and tolls just to go to work when gas was peaking over $4.00/gallon.

I guess I just need to make $300k/yr. to be happy... or better yet, $500k so I can clear the taxes to take home $260-270k net.

[killinstinct]

I don't know if you can ever make enough! This is one of the lessons of BK I guess....

[debtmonster]

I don't know if you can ever make enough! This is one of the lessons of BK I guess....

We need a constant coach next to us to remind us how lucky we are and how to live within our means. I wish I could afford to have a person around me at all times when it comes to spending money reminding me of what my budgets are for the month and not to go over them. www.mint.com is the closest thing, but it doesn't update in real-time.

[bkmaggster]

We need a constant coach next to us to remind us how lucky we are and how to live within our means. I wish I could afford to have a person around me at all times when it comes to spending money reminding me of what my budgets are for the month and not to go over them. www.mint.com is the closest thing, but it doesn't update in real-time.

I'm a big fan of the envelope system. We divvy the paychecks up into envelopes labeled "food" "utilities" "gas" "rent" etc. We don't use the debit card very much anymore, just the cash from the envelopes. That way we can't get into trouble.

Pretty old-fashioned, I know, but it's working.

[debtmonster]

I'm a big fan of the envelope system. We divvy the paychecks up into envelopes labeled "food" "utilities" "gas" "rent" etc. We don't use the debit card very much anymore, just the cash from the envelopes. That way we can't get into trouble.

Pretty old-fashioned, I know, but it's working.

Yes, I love that system the best. I'm just afraid that my wife will pilfer cash from the envelopes to spend the money on other things. I think eventually I will have to start using that system. The problem is that I need the cash in the bank to pay the bills electronically. The electric, Comcast, car insurance, business expenses and a lot of other bills are all paid via electronic billpay through Bank of America. It would be a pain to take out all of the cash and then have to run back to the bank to re-deposit it all again. I don't believe in spending money on stamps or waiting in lines at places to pay my bills.

How does your system work out for the envelope system?

[bkmaggster]

Yes, I love that system the best. I'm just afraid that my wife will pilfer cash from the envelopes to spend the money on other things. I think eventually I will have to start using that system. The problem is that I need the cash in the bank to pay the bills electronically. The electric, Comcast, car insurance, business expenses and a lot of other bills are all paid via electronic billpay through Bank of America. It would be a pain to take out all of the cash and then have to run back to the bank to re-deposit it all again. I don't believe in spending money on stamps or waiting in lines at places to pay my bills.

How does your system work out for the envelope system?

I stopped doing online billpay. Before we did the envelopes, I would use the debit card one place and my husband would use his somewhere else, and we would get so screwed up on who spent what where that the online payments would sometimes bounce. I'd rather pay for stamps then $25-$50 in NSF fees. We have a budget now, and we sit down together with every paycheck and talk about what goes into which envelope and why. That way neither one feels left out, and it strengthens our resolve to stick to the budget.

I don't know what to tell you about getting your wife on board. Does she understand the consequences of taking money out of your joint, marital budget? Make sure she is included in budget discussions, and then you should tell her she doesn't get anymore manicures if she touches that money.