selling a trailer

[okiemom2008]

My husband and I bought a trailer for 1200 in June 2008. It is just a utility trailer. Well we put it on out BOA card. Then in November we realized we are going to have to file bk. We paid on this BOA card until November.

Our lawyer says if we have no need for the trailer to just sell it or the trustee will take it. Could I not include it in my bk? He is saying to sell it and use the money for clothes, food and neccesities.We would like to keep the trailer is possible because we move alot and it makes it to where we do not have to have a UHaul but if we can get cash instead of giving it to the trustee we would rather do that.

Anyone have any experience with this?

[jribe]

if you want to keep it, you can just list it in your BK and the trustee will tell you how much they want for it. If you paid 1200 for it, it's probably worth around 800? IDK. But you can keep it if you want it. Anything that you want to keep, but has value- the trustee will just ask money for it

[justbroke]

Since you paid for it with an unsecured credit card... you own that trailer and have no "lien" on it. That means you have a free and clear title to it.

That being said, your lawyer is telling you that the value of that Trailer will belong to your Bankruptcy estate. The Trustee will take it and sell it, or make you redeem it by paying the Trustee the trailer's value.

If you don't want it, it's best to just sell it now and use the money for food, clothing, medical needs.

You ask, Could I not include it in my bk? It will automatically become part of your Bankruptcy estate. What you're not understanding is that you actually own it outright... don't owe a penny on it (technically), because no lien attaches to it. Bank of America can't come and repossess it.

Listen to your lawyer. You seem to have a great one!

[okiemom2008]

Since you paid for it with an unsecured credit card... you own that trailer and have no "lien" on it. That means you have a free and clear title to it.

That being said, your lawyer is telling you that the value of that Trailer will belong to your Bankruptcy estate. The Trustee will take it and sell it, or make you redeem it by paying the Trustee the trailer's value.

If you don't want it, it's best to just sell it now and use the money for food, clothing, medical needs.

You ask, Could I not include it in my bk? It will automatically become part of your Bankruptcy estate. What you're not understanding is that you actually own it outright... don't owe a penny on it (technically), because no lien attaches to it. Bank of America can't come and repossess it.

Listen to your lawyer. You seem to have a great one!

Ok great. Thanks so much for the advice. We will sell it then. I guess I just thought the Trustee will ask where the money we deposit comes from(from the sale of the trailer)and when I say "we sold the trailer" he will obviosuly see that it was purchased on the BOA card and ask for the money. Where could I sell it at-ebay, online, does it matter? I was mistaken-we bought it for 1400 and it is in perfect shape. Is there a limit to what I can try to sell it for?(thinking 1100)

[okiemom2008]

. Anything that you want to keep, but has value- the trustee will just ask money for it

Even stuff that is exempt, like furniture? We listed our funriture worth 700 and definetly want to keep it all but would we have to pay him 700 to keep it? Sorry, I am confused!

[jribe]

Even stuff that is exempt, like furniture? We listed our funriture worth 700 and definetly want to keep it all but would we have to pay him 700 to keep it? Sorry, I am confused!

No you don't have to pay them for your furniture. But like i said, the trailer wouldn't be exempt. So if you want to keep it, the value would be based on "yard sale value" and you can just pay the trustee to keep it. There's no limit on what you can get for it either.

[Keebler]

Even stuff that is exempt, like furniture? We listed our funriture worth 700 and definetly want to keep it all but would we have to pay him 700 to keep it? Sorry, I am confused!

No...

Anything you claim as exempt is yours and will stay yours.

Those assets you list that can't be exempt (like the trailer) can be taken by the trustee, sold, and the money distributed to your creditors.

You can "redeem" the property the trustee wants to take by substituting cash.

So then, in the case of the trailer the trustee would be happy to let you keep it by letting you turn over and equivalent amount of cash instead of turning over the trailer itself.

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Part of the Trustee's job is to determine if you've disposed of any assets in anticipation of filing. (The Bankruptcy Petition asks specifically about this.) If you do sell it, it had better be for a fair price so there's no appearance that you dumped it to avoid having it taken away. With it sold, the trustee will want the cash proceeds and you'll need to be able to show that it was spent on non-luxury living expenses.

There will be no question of fraud if you simply include the trailer as an asset and let the trustee decide. Unlike automobiles, the value of a trailer isn't so easy to determine and I'd put the lowest value on it that you think you can justify. There's a good chance that the trustee won't even bother going after an asset that's worth hundreds of dollars and you might just end up keeping it anyway.

The worst case is the trustee wants it despite the low value. If this happens you'll need to decide to turn it over or cough up the money to keep it.

In any case, I'd think carefully about selling an asset to avoid having it ceased because that's the definition of fraud. If you're willing to sell it today, there's a 100% chance the trailer will be gone tomorrow. If you leave it a part of your bankruptcy, there's a chance you'll keep it for free. If the trustee ends up taking it away, you're not much worse off than if you had sold it because it'll be just as gone. The benefit is that you don't participate in an activity that has the potential appearance of wrong doing. How bad do you really need several hundred dollars of extra food clothing and shelter?

[okiemom2008]

No...

Anything you claim as exempt is yours and will stay yours.

Those assets you list that can't be exempt (like the trailer) can be taken by the trustee, sold, and the money distributed to your creditors.

You can "redeem" the property the trustee wants to take by substituting cash.

So then, in the case of the trailer the trustee would be happy to let you keep it by letting you turn over and equivalent amount of cash instead of turning over the trailer itself.

--------

Part of the Trustee's job is to determine if you've disposed of any assets in anticipation of filing. (The Bankruptcy Petition asks specifically about this.) If you do sell it, it had better be for a fair price so there's no appearance that you dumped it to avoid having it taken away. With it sold, the trustee will want the cash proceeds and you'll need to be able to show that it was spent on non-luxury living expenses.

There will be no question of fraud if you simply include the trailer as an asset and let the trustee decide. Unlike automobiles, the value of a trailer isn't so easy to determine and I'd put the lowest value on it that you think you can justify. There's a good chance that the trustee won't even bother going after an asset that's worth hundreds of dollars and you might just end up keeping it anyway.

The worst case is the trustee wants it despite the low value. If this happens you'll need to decide to turn it over or cough up the money to keep it.

In any case, I'd think carefully about selling an asset to avoid having it ceased because that's the definition of fraud. If you're willing to sell it today, there's a 100% chance the trailer will be gone tomorrow. If you leave it a part of your bankruptcy, there's a chance you'll keep it for free. If the trustee ends up taking it away, you're not much worse off than if you had sold it because it'll be just as gone. The benefit is that you don't participate in an activity that has the potential appearance of wrong doing. How bad do you really need several hundred dollars of extra food clothing and shelter?

Oh, ok. Well dang I don't know what to do then. I was going to sell it and use the money on going to the doctor. We do not have insurance and all 3 of us need to see a doctor for diff. things but just keep putting it off. I am guessing we would have a little left over after doctor to go get our teeth cleaned or get groceries but not sure...basically going to the doctor is more important than anything else.

I don't want to commit fraud though..and definetly won't lie about anything . I think I will think about it. Thanks for giving me another perspective!

[justbroke]

You can spend the money on necessities which includes the doctor. What Keebler was writing about was fraudulent transfers where a debtor will sell, for example, his trailer to a friend or family member for $10 (not th real value)... just to constructively hide the asset!

You would sell the trailer for market value. You'd take the money and spend it on necessities like food, clothing, and medical needs. You just need the paper trail to show where you spent it.

That's all.

[okiemom2008]

on the other hand, would a neccesity be paying the lawyer? We cannot file until we come up with the money so selling it and paying him would help us get closer.

[justbroke]

on the other hand, would a neccesity be paying the lawyer? We cannot file until we come up with the money so selling it and paying him would help us get closer.

Legal representation, a lawyer, is absolutely a necessity!

[relief13035]

Personally - I would sell the trailer and pay your attorney to get your BK underway instead of waiting. Once you have filed and the process is going forward you will feel so much better. For us, a TON of stress was lifted off our shoulders once we had a case number. Whewwwwwwwwww

A trailer is just a trailer.....you can always get another one once you are debt free. FILE ASAP.....it's much more important than a trailer

[albacore44]

I'm going to be in the same situation when I file. I have a RV travel trailer worth quite a bit more than that, but fortunatly california has a large wild card exemption which I plan to exempt it under. still may have to pay the trustee something to redeem the amount i can't exempt if any.