Im new here and have some questions

[Hollyhomemaker]

Hello. I woke up at 3 am and began reading this forum that I found on google and never stopped reading until 10am when my 2 year old began waking up. This is an amazing board and one of so much support that I want to tell all of you that you are a group that I would be honored to be among you.

Here is what is going on. I am married, and I have 3 children. My husband has always been the sole breadwinner for the last 13 years since our first child was born. The house is in his name, both mortgage and deed because the bank felt that since i wasn't part of the income to support the loans there was no reason to be on either of them. That same bank holds our car loan and that is only in his name too.

We both have good credit and have always paid our bills on time, never late or anything. All of our credit card debt is in my name, basically because i had these credit cards before I met him; he was never interested in credit cards.

I am $26k in credit card debt. $20k of it was created in 2005 and the other $6k was created 6 months ago in one single month. 6 months ago I spent $4k on lasik surgery and the other 2K came from our fridge breaking and I got a new one, which with the price, warranty and tax it came to $1100, and then the other $900 came from various car repairs, and pellets for the upcoming heating season. All of these things happened at the end of April. The other $20k was from 2005 and consisted of two charges only. They were the siding and roof put on our home when we bought it. Those two transactions in 05 were spread out among my 2 Amex's, my one Chase, my one BOA, my one Capital One and my one Citi, almost perfectly evenly. The siding was divided up evenly amongst the 6 cards and so was the roofing, and so was the lasik. I guess what Im basically saying is that I have $26k all evenly spread among 6 credit cards, but $6k of it happened in March.

We have been managing this debt and I was maintaining a high fico because my credit history is long and the payment history is rock solid. But about 5 months ago everything changed. I was involved in a car accident with 2 deer and it totaled my husband's car that we had just finished paying on.

We lost an asset worth $5k because we had take off our full coverage when we paid it off. My husband bought a new car right after that, and that payment along with my increased debt of that additional $6k, is making me barely able to make minimums. Our income is only $20k a year and we are a family of 5 in NY. I wish I had never gotten that lasik.

After all the reading Ive done here it has left me with some questions. I know my husband's income would come into play, but if I filed Chapter 7 individually (none of my c.c debt is in his name, nor is he an auth user) how can I claim any expenses? The bills and expense are in my husband's name. All of our expenses, the car, the house, the utilities are in his name. If I can't claim the credit card bills I am going to file BK on, what expenses can I claim at all? I have no income and I personally have no assets.

I do worry about the 6 credit card companies being pissed about the $6 grand I put on them back in March.

My selfish act of getting lasik, the unexpected accident and subsequent new car has been a missle to our tenuous budget. I know I qualify for a BK7, because all of my debt is unsecured and I have no assets and our income is so low, but I am so scared about what I can claim as expenses? If I have to use his income as a means test can I include his bills too?

Is it true you cannot claim the credit card bills you are BK'g on as part of the expenses? I just dont know how I can qualify for BK7 now, if I can't claim my c.c bills. Please help.

[JollyGG]

I am assuming you want to keep the house and car which are in his name and you are only interested in getting rid of the unsecured debt, meaning the credit cards.

In that case you should be able to file without your husbands. Since your household income is below the median you should have no problem qualifying for a chapter 7 bankruptcy. As for expenses for your schedules, since you have no income even with no expenses you have no disposable income. Or if you include his income you would also include the bills he pays and therefore would have no disposable income.

So basically you are worrying for nothing. You are also beating yourself up needlessly. Life happens and we have all made mistakes in our lives.

As for the charges six months ago - have you been making payments on that debt for the past several months? If you have you really shouldn't have to much problems with creditor objections. Since it was spent on medical proceedures and household expenses you really probably won't have a problem with objections. Plus with the amount spread among several different cards an objection is even more unlikely. In the unlikely situation where they to object you would only need to pay that amount back. Plus a creditor can only object to the charge on their one card.

Take a deep breath and calm down. It will be okay. It sounds like you need to set up FREE consultations with 3-4 lawyers and see what they have to say about your situation.

Several people will mention that $26k is not a lot of debt to declare bankruptcy on but considering you household income it is deffinately an option to consider. And in regards to your household income - 20k a year is not very much to support a family of five on. Is there any way to increase you families income? How old are your kids? Is you working a viable option? Is your husband finding a better job an option? I want to see you make a fantastic new fresh start and getting rid of the debt is only part of making that happen. Improving you income situation is the next step.

[lrprn]

Welcome to BK Forum, Hollyhomemaker - glad you found us!

You can definitely file on your own without your husband. His income that is related to supporting the household will be considered your income. Since he makes far less than the NY median income for your family size, you can file Ch 7 alone and wipe out your credit card debt since he is not responsible for any of it.

Since the large charges were more than 90 days ago and you've been making payments on them for six months, you'll be fine there. If you are still charging on your cards, it's best if you stop charging for 90 days before filing.

Set up free or low-cost initial consultation appointments with 3-4 bankruptcy lawyers in your area. Explain everything you've told us and find out what they think about your situation.

Given what you've described about your situation, I'm betting that you'll be able to file Ch 7 alone with no problems. Keep us posted what you find out. Keep asking questions here - we'll help you sort things out as much as we can.

[B12]

Normally, I would also say the debt is low and don't declare BK.
But, with your hub's salary and you working full time taking care of 3 kids, I say file BK. You seem to be doing well budgeting on his salary and will be okay once you get rid of cc debt.

Are you in a depressed area of NY state?

One thing concerns me. I have never heard of a bank telling a couple that since the wife does not work outside the home, the deed should be in his name only. Never, ever.

The non working spouse should always go on the deed.

And, stop beating yourself up for the lasik. If you didn't have it, you couldn't read the forum, lolol.

IMO, file by yourself, get on with your wonderful life, and once discharged, get rid of the credit cards, pay cash for everything and get your name on the deed to your house.

You don't need to qualify for or be on the mortgage. Just get your name on the deed.

[SinkingFast]

Yah know,................

With everything being in Hubby's name,........... All your major assets,............ If your name isn't on the bank acct, there's nothing for Creditors to get.

You're basically Judgement proof right now. That's if you don't have joint bank accts with Hubby.

Creditors don't throw good money after bad. They'll check you out first to see who all you owe how much to. Where you work. They'll check public records at the Court House looking for property to attach.

There's no house or vehicle to put a lien on. Your name is not on the Deed.

You don't have any wages to attach. You don't work outside the home.

And if you don't have any joint checking or savings accts, there's nothing for a Banking Institution Garnishment against.

There may be no need to rush to do anything.

If you can live OK on what Hubby makes, then you really don't have to worry about making CC payments. Sure, you'll get phone calls. And letters. Get Caller ID and an answering machine to screen the calls. Save the letters for when you do file.

If it takes you a while to Consult around and find an attny, get your fees paid, and get your Docs gathered, there's really nothing for you to worry about.

[Hollyhomemaker]

Thank you everyone, so much. Your replies and your support means a great deal to me. I've told no one about this, only my husband so it is a great relief to talk to others who have been there and understand the stress and and concerns that go along with filing BK.

I have a question for you all. Ive found the federal exemptions for a family of 5 household, but what Im wondering is this, if I am filing BK7 individually would I only take 1/2 of those amounts or are those exemptions amount for a single person filing BK anyway? I dont know how to calculate the expense exemptions, if I should use the full amounts or if I am entitled to only take half. I could really use the answer to that question, as it makes all the difference. In the wording it says taxpayer, not taxpayers or married taxpayers so I am hoping i can take the full exemptions, what do you think?

B12, yes we live in a very depressed rural part of NY state, and I guess there is a first time for everything because that is exactly what the bank told my husband when we bought the house, I dont go on the loan because I have no income and the bank doesn't allow anyone not on the loan to be on the deed.

Lrprn, Yes, the income of my dh is way less than the median, but it's the expenses Im really concerned about.

Can I only take 1/2 the exempted amount or do I take the full amount? I am concerned that without my c.c bills to take off and only 1/2 of our bills, and possibly only taking 1/2 the Federal exemptions (somebody help me with that question) I will have disposable income.

Jolly, I think I can only take 1/2 of Hubby's bills right even though I have to include 100% of his income? That doesn't sound fair to me. If i have to include all his income why not all his bills? Yes, I have made every c.c payment on time.

Sinkingfast, thank you too. Yes, I dont have any assets for them to take but Im afraid because of the charges I made 6 months ago they will want those amounts dismissed.

Thanks again everyone! Your help is so much appreciated! Im hoping someone can help clarify me with the expense part of this.

[SinkingFast]

You've been paying on your accts til now, so you probably don't have anything to worry about.

It's gonna take you a while to Consult around, pick an attny, get your fees paid, gather your docs, etc. Possibly another 6 months will pass by before you're ready to file. Maybe early summer next year.

By then, over a year will have lapsed since your last big charges. Creditors most likely won't Object on charges that old.

Seriously,.............. Creditors will check you out before coming after you. When we started doing our Credit clean-up, our Creditors had been pulling our Reports on a regular basis prior to when we filed BK. They were looking to see who all we owed how much to and if we were paying anybody else. We went 10 months of no payments before we filed.

[Hollyhomemaker]

Hi again!

If my husband's income is less than the median for our state (not a community state) does that mean then we don't have to use the exemptions at all? Because Ive done more reading and it appears to me that the exemptions, federal or state, are designed to help lower the income of people whose income is higher than the medium and to bring it down to help them qualify for BK7....

is that right? Or are people whose income is much lower than the median, like my situation, does that mean that people like me still have to use the exemptions to lower the disposable monthly income?

Hi Sinkingfast, thanks again for your input and advice. Im listening very carefully to you.

[JollyGG]

Hollyhomemaker -

I think you may be overthinking the expenses, income, assets, six month old debt questions because you are stressed out about this situation. Which is very understandable. This board is great. It has lots of fantastic information and is a great support situation. However, one danger of a board like this is that you see so many different situtations and start applying ever worry you can think of to your situations.

First to address you concerns about the six month old debts. Any charges for luxary purchases over $600 in the 90 days prior to your filing and any cash advances over $600 70 days prior to filing are presumed fraudulent. Anything older than that (your cash advances fall in that catagory) the creditor would have to prove were fraudulent, or that you knew you were going to file when you made the charges. To object costs money. They are not going to do it unless they have a very good chance of winning. In order to win they need to prove you knew you were going to file when you took the money. So you have alot going for you here. 1. Your debt is spread among many cards - this makes it so the six month old debt to any one card is probably not worth their time and money to persue, 2. The transactions are over six months old at this point - it gets harder and harder to object to a charge the more time that passes. Objections to charges older than six months are rare and usually involve a large purchase or cash advance (much larger than you have on any one card in your situation). 3. You have been making payments - that shows an intent to repay 4. You charges were for medical expenses and living expenses - not luxary goods or services.

As for the assets question. Most of your major assets are in your husbands name so you will not need to exempt them. Anything you own jointly you only own 1/2 of and therefore only need to exempt that 1/2. You are entitled to the full exemptions for your state.

Now onto income and expenses. It gets a tiny bit more complicated when you are filing without your husband, but you are making it way more complicated than it really is. Are your filing pro-se (without a lawyer)? If you have a lawyer they will know how to handle this. Ask around at your consultations with several lawyers exactly how this will be handled. You are so far below the median for your state that no matter how the means test is worked (with his income and how much of his income) you will still pass with flying colors.

You'll be fine. Keep asking questions here and we will keep trying to answer them as best we can. It deffinately sounds like it is time to schedule a few consulations with lawyers. They should be able to reasure you and explain alot about how things work. As sinkingfast said you have time to figure this out. Visit with several attouneys until you find one you like.

[keepmine]

Jolly is right. You're way overthinking.
If things like a mortgage and utilities and the cable, etc. are all in your husbands name, that means he has 100% liability for them and can claim every penny as an expense.
You really have a slamdunk Chapter 7. As others suggest, get yourself to an attorney and get the ball rolling.

[lrprn]

...if I am filing BK7 individually would I only take 1/2 of those amounts or are those exemptions amount for a single person filing BK anyway?

The exemptions are for a single filing person like yourself. Some exemptions can be doubled for a married couple filing in some states.

[SinkingFast]

Everyone uses Exemptions. Exemptions are the property we're allowed to keep to begin our fresh start post BK.

Even tho you won't need to tap the Homestead Exemption or a Vehicle Exemption, you'll still use some of the Household Goods Exemption. Part/Half of the furniture and such in the Household is yours. You'll need to cover your clothes. Your wedding ring. Etc.

As Jolly pointed out,......... You're way past the 70/90 day time frame. More than 70 days has passed since your last big cash advance. The burden of proof that you knew you could not repay has shifted from you to your Creditors. And since you've continued making timely payments the last 6 months, the Creditors' case is that much weaker.

I was just saying,............ If you wanted to put more time between your last charges and filing, you should be able to. There's nothing for the Creditors to get. No reason to even try to come after you legally. So no need to rush.

[lrprn]

If my husband's income is less than the median for our state (not a community state) does that mean then we don't have to use the exemptions at all?

Since his income is below the median for your state, as the Means Test is completed, at the first "decision point" Line 15, your lawyer will check that your income is under the median so there is no need to continue through the rest of the Means Test and no need to use the exemptions for the Means Test.

However, you will use the exemptions to protect the assets you want to keep when you file - your home, a car for each licensed driver, your household goods, etc.

Because Ive done more reading and it appears to me that the exemptions, federal or state, are designed to help lower the income of people whose income is higher than the medium and to bring it down to help them qualify for BK7....

Can't speak to the actual intent of the exemptions but what you describe is very often what happens

Here's a link to the current Means Test forms to file Ch 7 at http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For...m_22A_0407.pdf so you can see how it works.

Hope this helps!

[Hollyhomemaker]

If things like a mortgage and utilities and the cable, etc. are all in your husbands name, that means he has 100% liability for them and can claim every penny as an expense.

Hi Keepmine! Who can claim every penny as an expense? Me or my husband? Because he isn't filing I am, so are you saying that I can claim every expense even though they are in his name? I would just claim half right?

[Hollyhomemaker]

Hey everyone!

I am so sorry if I am being an idiot here. lol I am just trying to gather as much information as I can so that I go into this with my eyes wide open. You all are a godsend. Seriously. If you think I sound stressed now you dont know the half of it before I started talking to all of you. I am way way calmer about things.

The only thing that truly saddens me is that I am BK'g all the prime banks, Chase, BOA, AMex, Citi, whom Ive had forever, and all of whom will blacklist my butt. There is no hope for me to ever have a prime card again, and knowing that is the worst part of all of this.