Nice size income tax

[freshstart06]

I am not sure if some of you guys are reading my entire post, I did all of the things you asked. I am using actual numbers. The only thing I was not aware of was that 6 months does not include the current month you file. but it does not matter the numbers are the same. I know it is hard to believe but the number don't lie. I am really under even considering the amount of 'gross" income my husband makes. It is weird because I spoke to some people out here that filed chapter 7 and they were not even asked to see 6 months income and they made more money then we did.

[freshstart06]

Lrmrm, are you sure if you file in July you will need income from Dec to June??? from dec to June that is 7 months?! I am sure they only want 6 months which is from January to June if you file in July.

[lrprn]

We believe you, freshstart. That's not the reason for all the questions. I think it's that your information has come out in bits and pieces over two very long threads, and it isn't clear from reading them if you are plugging in all the required IRS and Census bureau figures on the Means Test.

Please don't take offense - none is intended. We're just trying to sort out everything that scattered through the posts, that's all. You are very familiar with your situation - we're brand new to it. Please bear with us - thanks!

[lrprn]

Lrmrm, are you sure if you file in July you will need income from Dec to June??? from dec to June that is 7 months?! I am sure they only want 6 months which is from January to June if you file in July.

Sorry - should have counted on my fingers In my example if you file on July 15 the six-month lookback for income should be Jan 1, 2007 to June 30, 2007. Duh!

[BKTango]

The median income for Arizona for a family of 6 is $76,876. Just using your husbands income alone is more than that, that doesn't even factor in your income commision or the profit sharing IF that has to be included.

Break it down to the 6 month look back.

Husbands income - $39,720 ($6620 x 6)
Your commission - you said was $344 broken down into 12 months, but lrprn said it has to have the whole check included if you received it in the past 6 months which does make since. So that would be $4128

$39,720 + $4128 = $43,848 for 6 months

The median income for 6 months in Arizona, family of 6 is $38,436 + or - a dollar or two.

That puts you at $5412 over the median...give or take a dollar or two. Or roughly $900 a month

Automatically the presumption of abuse arises with the Means Test....that's where you have it then go to the expenses. It will come down to your expenses. That's where all the confusion is starting. The problem is, you may not have a sympathetic trustee, they may only care about the numbers of the means test and with that it looks like you have disposable income. That's what I was trying to explain to you and why I suggested you wait to file until you do some more research. If you have more than average medical costs and other expenses and can document them, then it will be your expenses that will possibly make you able to file a chapter 7.

[freshstart06]

I know you guys are trying to help and it does not help that I did not give all the infomation until now. I am just so stressed!!! I want this over yesterday so I can go on with my life. We got summons to answer a suit against us, of course I answered and I truly feel that we are right but with that pending suit against us and all of our bills plus due to my injury I can't work this is too much. I was told not to worry and we will qualify because we are so close to the median but our expense out weigh everything. It is frustrating that I can't afford a lawyer because if I could afford what they were asking I could pay down a bill, I prefer to use my money to feed my kids and take care of current bills. I guess the worse that can happen is it gets dismissed and we have to reapply in 6 months and by then we will really qualify LOL.

[freshstart06]

BKtango, if a trustee looks at the disposable there is none according to the means test. If we use your numbers and we are over $5412 the median
then you add the Arizona allowance for 6 people which is $5832 this was automatically done for me we are now at -$420 this is before we add the other debts allowed ie daycare and medical not to mention the overdue taxes.

but this is what the system shows:

Monthly income $6942
Automatic deductions for my county: $5832other allowed expenses ie childcare, medical, car payments, taxes
$7054 is total deductions allowed
Now negative -$112
Now if you tax out overdue taxes $201
We then will be above at $89
However the lawyers assigned to help people with the means test told me to add it.

[freshstart06]

the rent has to go!!!! When we get our fresh start we have to reduce the housing expense asap like next month. I have to file soon because I can't afford to fight the summons we got if they opt to sue us

[freshstart06]

makes sense now LOL???

[BKTango]

You don't take what you have above the median income and then subtract the allowable expenses.

Going from my previous post $43,848 (you and your husbands income for the 6 month lookback) divided to get monthly is $7308 income monthly.

Lumping the allowable figures into 1 number is confusing me but if you go by what you just posted, $5832 allowed expenses then you have a surplus of
$7308 income-$5832 allowables = $1476.

That would be looked at as disposable, now you take your additional medical costs, daycare out of that if you hadn't used that expense elsewhere. Unless your additional daycare and medical expenses add up to that, it will look to be diposable income.

[JollyGG]

Actually she may be fine. I only have two kids, and no real additional medical and I could probably eat up $1476 pretty easy.

Daycare at one of the cheapest home daycares I have heard of for my two children is $700. Most people I know pay about twice what I do at a center.

Daycare for four kids at a center could cost $1476 alone.

[BKTango]

Lol I think I am starting to know more about their expenses than my own. But that's what I was trying to get around, it's not that she's under the median because she's not. The presumption is there, it's going to come down to expenses and unless the medical and daycare and other needed expenses add up to that, then any remaining will be looked at as dsiposable.

[freshstart06]

BKTango, the allowable deductions also includes payroll deductions that include taxes and such that allow eats up the $1476. I was told by the lawyer that helps people with the means test that they do deducted payroll deductions. However like you stated before, I may have to hand over my 07 tax refund but it is rare. that just would not make sense that they make you include income you can't even use because the irs requires us to pay taxes before we receive our W2 wages. The Lawyer told me thay put that into account.

[freshstart06]

I wish there was some way I could post this so you guys can see it. this will really help out.

Tango you are correct, you know my finances better then me now LOL. My mom watch my kids and we paid her how will I provide proof for that or do I have to provide proof???

[lrprn]

My mom watch my kids and we paid her how will I provide proof for that or do I have to provide proof???

If you paid your mom $1,500 or more total last year and/or $1,500 or more total by the end of this year for child care in your home and she qualifies as your employee (see IRS Publication 926 - http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p926.pdf ), then you were supposed to pay taxes on her wages.

If instead your mom qualifies to be self-employed (the IRS Publication will help you figure that out too), then I'm hoping she declared the money you paid her to the IRS.

Either your taxes paid to the IRS for your mom's child care wages or your mom's declaration of the income to the IRS will prove your child care costs.

If you paid your mom less than $1,500 for the year, then no taxes are owed by either one of you (but you won't have much to put towards your day care costs either )