Few Misc Questions About My Chapter 7

[rmlrmlrml]

I have $15,000 in Federal Tax Debt. All returns were filed over 3 years ago so I have the green light to include them in the Bankruptcy. I read the sticky here and I am confused about one part,

"If you don't file the Adversarial in BK, you are not without hope, but you will create one complicated, difficult, and EXPENSIVE mess to clean up that few attorney's or tax professionals are equipped to handle."

At this point I am on SSI - I make $733 a month, have no assets, and am on the Section 8 housing program. I don't have so much as a car and my bank account balance is $33.00. I talked to the IRS earlier today on the phone and went through a process that she stated will stop any and all collection efforts unless my financial situation changes. She stated interest would still accrue but they would not make any attempts to collect - and she told me not to worry about filing Bankruptcy (Big Surprise).

My question is even though my personal liability for the debt is gone. I have no assets. Is there any way they could have a lien on anything I would buy in the future or does it have to be property I own now the lien would have to be placed on ? Basically I'm wondering if there is still some sneaky way they could come at me if I get back on my feet. If there is I should work on a OIC after the bankruptcy as well.

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2nd Tax related question. I was a complete idiot and never filed my state taxes. If the state matters let me know and I will PM you. So basically I am assuming I am entirely screwed there ?? Is there anything I can do to file Bankruptcy on those ? I haven't worked in 3 years as I have been on disability so if the 2 year rule helps here that would be great. I assume I screwed myself since I didn't file at all though. Thoughts ?

Worst case scenario I'm thinking if I file and just never contact them at all - Maybe I'll somehow get lucky and they'll never try to collect. I was actually living in Indiana and a couple other states for about a year and a half during the times I didn't file. I know without something solid calling them is the worst possible thing I could do.

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I filed in 2003 - but the attorney neglected to mention I was supposed to take some sort of class after the BR so it was never official and creditors still came after me, even though my CR showed Debts discharged due to BR. Only a few came after me. I'm wondering, is it a guarantee if something doesn't show up on either of my 3 CR's for the last 7 years, is that a guarantee they can't try to collect after the BR. My last BR alerted all creditors and one I didn't even have listed came after me for an OLD debt.

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One last thing. It looks like they have a program where it might be possible to get the BR fee waived. Truthfully it is the only way I will be able to afford it. However on the application it asked for income, including govt. benefits such as housing and Food. It ended up being $160 + $355 + $733 = $1,248. I highly doubt they will waive the BR filing fee with that, would they ? I think they would with the $733 but the Housing and Food brings my income levels up to where someone should be able to afford it. Anyone been in a similar situation ??


I know this is a TON of questions, I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help out. It means a lot to me.

[despritfreya]

I read the sticky here and I am confused about one part, "If you don't file the Adversarial in BK, you are not without hope, but you will create one complicated, difficult, and EXPENSIVE mess to clean up that few attorney's or tax professionals are equipped to handle."

I have never found this to be the case. In nearly 30 years of practice I have yet to file a 523 action to get the Court to determine that the tax obligation meets the test of dischargeability. The reality is this: Either it does or it does not.

The IRS is very good about the "reality". Once your discharge is entered it will do an internal review and, if the taxes meet the test, it will abate the tax. You will want to stay in touch with the bankruptcy unit of the IRS to verify if and when the tax is abated. If the IRS determines that the tax does not meet the test it will tell you why if you ask.

Is there any way they could have a lien on anything I would buy in the future or does it have to be property I own now the lien would have to be placed on?

If the IRS has not recorded a lien prior to filing bk for an otherwise dischargeable tax, it will not record a lien after the entry of the discharge. Any pre petition lien for an otherwise dischargeable tax will remain "effective" after the bk is filed but will not attach to property you acquire after the filing date.

I was a complete idiot and never filed my state taxes. If the state matters let me know and I will PM you. So basically I am assuming I am entirely screwed there ?? Is there anything I can do to file Bankruptcy on those?

Your state taxes (does not matter what state) will not be subject to the discharge. The second prong of the test is that you actually had to file the tax return either on time or at least 2 years prior to filing. The only way to discharge them is to get the returns filed and then wait 2 years.

Due to your financial situation you may want to contact the state taxing agency to see if you can be put on a non-collectable list. The state will probably require you to file the missing returns before it will agree to such.

I filed in 2003 - but the attorney neglected to mention I was supposed to take some sort of class after the BR so it was never official and creditors still came after me.

Sorry but this is not correct. In 2003 you were not required to take any class. If you meant 2013 then your case was closed without the entry of a discharge due to the failure to take the Financial Management class. Since you never obtained a discharge the creditors are free to collect only subject to any statute of limitations defense you may have. Make sure you list everyone in this new case, which, by the way, the filing of would be an issue had you obtained a discharge in 2013.

Lastly, you can request a fee waiver. The Court may deny the request but allow payment of the fee in installments. You won’t know until you ask.

Des.

[justbroke]

I have never found this to be the case. In nearly 30 years of practice I have yet to file a 523 action to get the Court to determine that the tax obligation meets the test of dischargeability. The reality is this: Either it does or it does not.

I agree with Des on this 100%. The IRS is a pretty cool customer in 99.999% of the cases. The only time I have read about an IRS challenge has been where there is clearly a questionable issue (such as the 3/2/240 rule).

Just do what des wrote and you should be okay in this regard.