70 day or 90 day wait for cash advance/balance transfer

[mikem456]

I am seeing some people say you must wait 90 days after a balance transfer/cash advance before filing bankruptcy, and some saying 70 days. Which is it? Also is this is 70/90 days from the date the balance transfer went through?

[justbroke]

The number of days is only for the "automatic" presumption of non-dischargeability. A creditor could still cry foul and say that you fraudulently obtained cash advances knowing that you could not and would not pay.

Having wrote that, and after scaring you a bit, it really depends on the amount and circumstances. Quite literally, the more time that is between the time of the advance -- and continuous payments! -- the less likely the creditor could or would cry foul.

By the way it's 70 days from when you "obtain" the extension of credit. This is codified in 11 USC 523 (a)(2)(C)(i)(II)...

11 USC 523 (a)(2)(C)(i) for purposes of subparagraph (A)—

(I) consumer debts owed to a single creditor and aggregating more than $500 for luxury goods or services incurred by an individual debtor on or within 90 days before the order for relief under this title are presumed to be nondischargeable; and

(II) cash advances aggregating more than $750 that are extensions of consumer credit under an open end credit plan obtained by an individual debtor on or within 70 days before the order for relief under this title, are presumed to be nondischargeable; and

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justbroke's study guide: this is only a "presumption" of non-dischargeability. The creditor would need to file an Adversary Procedure (AP) with a Complaint to Determine Non-Dischargeability. There remain many questions as to what is the threshold for a creditor to file such a complaint. This complaint could cost the creditor $4,000 or more to prosecute, so there is some feeling that creditors would not pursue this AP process if the amounts are below a certain threshold. Don't ask me the threshold because I only assume that it's probably somewhere near $4K. However, beware of Pro Se creditors. They are tenacious and since they prosecute things themselves, they don't care how much! The only barrier to an Pro Se is the $350 cost to file the AP/Complaint. Just my thoughts.

[LadyInTheRed]

Note that the dollar amounts in that code section are adjusted every 3 years and are currently $650 for purchases and $925 for cash advances.

[mikem456]

Hmmmm, I made two consecutive payments after the two balance transfers on both cards (two different cards), and now I am about a week late on the last payment that was due on both.

On a third account, I had a cash advance, and only made one payment after that, and am a couple days late on the payment now.

Should I make the late payments? Each balance transfer/cash advance is about 1500$ each. There are multiple previous cash advances/balance transfers on each card, about 1 each month previous.

GAMBLING SUCKS