Northern Ohio - 60 months from filing or confirmation?

[scht65]

Can a Chapter 13 go beyond 5 years / 60 payments? I am completing my five years this week and by my calculations my 60th payment will hit mid-December. I have never missed a payment or had any adjustments made to my plan, but even though it was set at 100% I would still have approximately 8 months left to bring all of my balances to zero. The clerk told me that my plan would extend to complete all of the balances or they would have to dismiss my plan completely? Is this correct??? I am in the Northern District of Ohio

[angel7821]

This is just a guess but maybe they are going by your confirmation date. I am sure someone alot more knowledgeable will be able to help you out. Sorry that is the best I can do for you. Justbroke or Lady In The Red are very good at answering questions around here. Hopefully they will pop in soon.

[LadyInTheRed]

Unfortunately, I can't give a definite answer. I suggest you ask your attorney and not stop making payments until either the trustee or your attorney says you can.

I know from hearing from BKform members that there is at least one district in Michigan where they count the 60 months from confirmation. I believe I have also read that a district in Ohio goes from confirmation as well, but I don't remember actually seeing posts from anybody in Ohio to confirm that. So, please let us know what happens with you.

I really think some BK attorney in Michigan (and maybe Ohio) should fight this issue. It seems pretty clear to me that the Bankruptcy Code does not allow for more than a 5 year plan, regardless of how long it takes to get confirmed.

The following is exerpts from paragraph (d) of Section 1322:

(d)
(1) If the current monthly income of the debtor and the debtor’s spouse combined, when multiplied by 12, is not less than—
[snipped to remove language that basically says median income]
the plan may not provide for payments over a period that is longer than 5 years.
(2) If the current monthly income of the debtor and the debtor’s spouse combined, when multiplied by 12, is less than—
[snipped to remove language that basically says median income],
the plan may not provide for payments over a period that is longer than 3 years, unless the court, for cause, approves a longer period, but the court may not approve a period that is longer than 5 years.

There is a lot of language in the Bankruptcy Code that is difficult to interpret. But, I don't know how anyone can read the above and say that a Chapter 13 debtor can be required to make plan payments for more than 5 years.

[AngelinaCat]

There is a Michigan attorney who does post here every now and then. Hopefully he/she will log in with some answers soon. If I can think of the username, I'll send a PM...

[angel7821]

I feel bad for those who have to go by confirmation date it just drags it out alot longer for them.

I guess I don't understand how OP can be sending in the 60th payment and still show 8 months worth of payments left unless they are going by confirmation date.

[scht65]

My filing date is November and my confirmation date is in August...

[scht65]

Is there anyone from the Northern District of Ohio that can confirm that they are using the confirmation date versus the filing date (60 payments)

[LadyInTheRed]

Based on what the clerk told you and your confirmation date, I suspect they use date of confirmation in your district.

I edited the title of your post so that it might attract the attention of somebody in your district.

[scht65]

Thank you!

[Pjmax]

http://journal.abi.org/sites/default...unterpoint.pdf

I was curious about this time going over 60 months thing, and came across this article from the American Bankruptcy Institute. It's a bit technically beyond my legal comprehension, but does show incidents and consequences of 13's going beyond 60 months. Don't know if this is a help to anyone or not. Hope so.

[woeisme]

I'm in the Southern District of Ohio, and have just sent in my 61st payment with several more to go (filed in Sept 07, confirmed mid-Jan 08).

In my particular case, it was initially confirmed to only run 59 months. Part way through my husband became disabled so couldn't work, and we had a motion for 3-months suspended payments while we worked through disability paperwork and reworked our paperwork and schedules for a modified payment. After 3 months, we resumed making payments but at $400/month instead of $1100 due to the major changes in discretionary income.

Last summer we submitted a motion in incur debt because our car was falling apart, and the trustee recommended denying the motion because we were going to be deficient in meeting our base (40% to unsecured) based on our current payment plans and length left in the plan. I contacted the trustee to see if we needed to make double payments to catch up, but was told by his office that I didn't have to do that, we could just extend the plan payments beyond the 60-months since my confirmation date could be used instead of my filing date, which was actually helpful in my case because I was afraid the choice was come up with the shortage or get dismissed after 60 months, but instead the trustee's office said I could pay it back by extending the timeline.

So while I could certainly understand the argument that I might want to fight to get the payments stopped at 60-months, that definitely wouldn't be in my best interest since that would mean coming up with $1900on the spot to pay off the 40% plan base to make up the 3 months we had suspended (one month at $1100 and 2 at $400).

[forgotten]

I feel bad for those who have to go by confirmation date it just drags it out alot longer for them.

I guess I don't understand how OP can be sending in the 60th payment and still show 8 months worth of payments left unless they are going by confirmation date.

Not to mention that it just is not fair. If I went by my confirmation date I would be paying an extra 7 months and $7,000 to unsecured creditors. My 341 was held up by the trustee twice and once by my attorney. Other peoples delays should not cost me an extra $7k.