Hating Chapter 13

[Flamingo]

Utmost respect for you Flamingo, but have to disagree with what you wrote to a certain degree

We did not have any debt other than mortgage (both 1st & 2nd combined fell within 26% of our income (PITI)) and a small car payment (less than $200) - owned every other vehicle we have and our RV - paying over $60K to pay them all off a little over a year before he lost his job. Hindsight is 20/20. Our filing BK wasnt due to purchasing outside our means nor wracking up loads of debt. We had to file because hubby lost his job and at 90K+ a year on his income alone (total was over $105K), those jobs dont come often, especially in his field of expertise. Finding a job (any job) that paid even $10 an hour was difficult, and when he finally did get one almost a year later, it was at 1/3 of what he was making, but it paid the bills and provided benefits (we were paying COBRA), and for that, we're grateful.

So not everyone files due to excessive debt, lack of control, or buying outside their means.

Your situation is almost completely similar to mine and we too managed to get by one year before filing - everyone's situation is different. We were making well over six figures and then the tech bust hit and over 70% of our income was gone and so was the lifestyle. The more ya make, the more ya spend and we had NO planning going on in case of a job loss. We struggled and became deeper in debt trying not to file and lose our home and robbed Peter to pay Paul for almost a year before giving up. My hubby never recovered from that job loss even to this day and it's been over 10 years and I have been the one making the money. Had we not had the debt and just our mortgage and other day to day normal bills, and savings in place sufficient to get by, we would not have had to file. Big reality check and for a long time I blamed the job/income loss and not the position we were in prior to disaster hitting. Note - there are people with excessive medical debts or various other reasons who have to file BK not due to any fault of their own, but the majority of BKs are from excessive debt, poor planning, living beyond one's means and spending sprees (then the job loss hits) no matter how one wants to dance around the fact - you cannot file bankruptcy without debt.

[Pandora]

True Flamingo - one must have debt to file BK . I hear ya on all accounts - its a hard road no doubt. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20 and had we known the job loss was coming we wouldn't of taken nearly all of our money out of our savings account to pay off vehicles, instead using it to pay the 2nd mortgage every month until another job was found. Our thought was we could put most of the money back into savings within 15-18 months, no problem....of course, no one predicted the loss of income. However on the flip side of that.. had we not paid off those items, we would've lost them - so guess it worked out the way it was supposed to. No fancy vacations or lifestyle here - all of our extra $ went into the bank for quite a few years. My idea of extravagant is springing for a $20 bottle of champagne LOL . Thankfully I made hubby promise not to touch his retirement $, no matter the cost..... and I'm glad he didnt, he's worked too hard all these years to get it to where it is.

Still pisses me off that we had to file - if the credit union would have either lowered the rate by 2% or extended out our 2nd a mere 5 years they would've been paid in full and then some, making more $ in the process than had they not. Amazing to me that they'd rather us file BK to strip it, getting less than what we were offering to do (pay them in full), and while it was our option to file, I still feel they forced the issue. We're paying more now a month to our Ch. 13 for them to get less than 40%, than had they accepted the 2 suggestions we put forth.

Boggles the mind sometimes....

[IamOld]

True Flamingo - one must have debt to file BK . I hear ya on all accounts - its a hard road no doubt. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20 and had we known the job loss was coming we wouldn't of taken nearly all of our money out of our savings account to pay off vehicles, instead using it to pay the 2nd mortgage every month until another job was found. Our thought was we could put most of the money back into savings within 15-18 months, no problem....of course, no one predicted the loss of income. However on the flip side of that.. had we not paid off those items, we would've lost them - so guess it worked out the way it was supposed to. No fancy vacations or lifestyle here - all of our extra $ went into the bank for quite a few years. My idea of extravagant is springing for a $20 bottle of champagne LOL . Thankfully I made hubby promise not to touch his retirement $, no matter the cost..... and I'm glad he didnt, he's worked too hard all these years to get it to where it is.

Still pisses me off that we had to file - if the credit union would have either lowered the rate by 2% or extended out our 2nd a mere 5 years they would've been paid in full and then some, making more $ in the process than had they not. Amazing to me that they'd rather us file BK to strip it, getting less than what we were offering to do (pay them in full), and while it was our option to file, I still feel they forced the issue. We're paying more now a month to our Ch. 13 for them to get less than 40%, than had they accepted the 2 suggestions we put forth.

Boggles the mind sometimes....

Pandora, you hit the nail on the head - WHY won't a lot of creditors just use some logic, common sense, whatever??? We have settled on a payment plan or thru credit counseling with EVERYONE!!! except one who decided to sue. So we're here waiting for our 13 to be filed...I'm sort of thinking I should have robbed Peter, Paul, and Mary to pay the devil its $3100 - that's how much those who are suing wanted as a downpayment to not sue, and then resume a bit higher than our normal payments....sometimes I think I should have somehow done it...of course what I would have done is probably let mort and car payments go to be 60 days past due - which is stupid. monumentally. Or maybe worked even more jobs...oh well.

So Pandora, I don't get it either...I guess they're so stuck in their mindset...who knows.

[jade73]

I am not ready to sympathize, because you have never really explained your situation, that I have seen, as to why you are in chapter 13 in the first place? As desp points out, you filed for a reason. I suspect there isn't/wasn't much alternative to deal with your financial challenges.

And based on your "complaints," You are still addicted to lifestyle, you aren't ready to, or maybe don't know how to live within your means. Most chapter 13 clients easily have a $3,000 emergency fund 1 year into a chapter 13.

No I didnt get into ANY of that BUT I'm converting so it really doesnt matter at this point. Like Dave Ramsey says...It's just a house, theres one on every corner! I found one, just wasnt on a corner!

[lillymarlene]

My lawyer recently mentioned to me that I could dismiss and refile as a 7 if I wanted. The car deduction in my state has gone from $700 to about $7,500. I still want to keep my 13 though. I like my small business, and well paying jobs for somebody 58, who is suffering from 2nd stage C.O.P.D. and is slightly deaf, are hard to come by. I still have about 3.5 years to go, but it sure beats a lot of things, like pending lawsuits and continuous phonecalls.

[dbr]

UHHH I know the economy caused many bk's. Mine was totally due to contruction business going down. We built several houses every year for 7-10 years, sold every one of thm, made some good money and lost some on a few. My greatet moment was the famly from Louisiana who were devastated by Katrina bought one of our homes. TV crews made a big deal out of it.

BUt when the bottom fell out we all had no choice, file or lose everything. Even contractors that built for 30-40 years went under. Not from bad business decisions or added un-needed debt, you simply cannot float a million dollars for long without selling anything. Pure and simple.

Look at financiers, it was all a house of cards, bound to fail at some time, but man did it fall hard and fast.

I believe we should all live within our means, but the expenses allowed inmy 13 are not even lose to reality. 200 bucks a month for three vehicles to get back and forth to work? Insane. See my other post for that nightmare.
Thanks DBR