Finally got filed yesterday but attorney is doing thing I doubt will fly

[ivehadit]

What a relief,, after three yrs to the month when we stopped paying unsecureds it's as if I can't wait for the next call from a creditor, none have called yet but I hope to get the satisfaction of giving them my case number and attorneys number, is that wrong? We qualify for a 7 but filed 13 in hopes for a lein strip have an appraisal scheduled so that's still up in the air if it doesn't work we will convert. We submitted a plan for 36 months at $290 which is 1% payback to unsecureds the problem I see with this is we are over the medium by 3k but he said we still qualify for 36 month plan I have doubts he is right about this. The other thing is I believe he under valued my truck, kbb has it at 6200 but the plan value we submitted is $3500 he said kbb is wrong. He seemed like the best choice when we did the attorney consultations if he pulls this off I will give him a christmas present.
For those of you who are waiting on the right moment to file or just sitting on the fence it's hard to explain the relief I felt when he hit enter on the keyboard to file our plan and gave us a case number. Learn as much as you can about the process so you can make the right decisions for your situation the knowlege on this board is tremendous and I can't thank those enough who share that knowlege. I will post updates throghout the process.

[SMinGA]

Unless you are miscalculating the median income - your atty is wrong. Over median means you MUST do 60 months. No other options. If you filed in July, then use Jan-Jun for median income. The median income figures were updated 3/15/10 - so make sure you're using the right figures.

As for the vehicle valuation - each district goes by different standards. Hopefully your atty knows how your district does it. If the valuation was an effort at a cramdown, it will probably be contested by the lender if the atty undervalued it. If its purely a matter of how much equity you have - its not important. Why? Well, you're proposing a payback of $290/mo. That means your creditors in the 13 will get more than they would have gotten if you filed 7 and liquidated the truck...

[ivehadit]

Just got off the phone with my attorney, he said after running the numbers I'm under median and his program let him proceed with the 36 month plan so that's what he is pushing for. I'm not getting my hopes up I agree with you it will be shot down. I forgot to mention the truck is paid for free and clear of any loans but he thinks with the condition it's in we are good on the valuation ( high miles, needs tires, scratches and dents) I entered this on kbb but it still said $6200 I guess on this we will have to wait and see what trustee says.

[Pandora]

have you run the means test yourself? I dont know how you can be over the median but still qualify for 36 months either. We qualify for 36 month but have to do the 60 month if we want to keep our assets (vehicles) since they are paid in full and we used up all our exemptions.

also - some trustee's use NADA as its higher for valuation, so make sure you look there as well and run the numbers that way.

[pepperoncini]

So, during the three years, who sued you? Were you garnished?

I'm trying to delay filing for two years. We filed a BK7 in 2004 and want to file again. (Just typing that makes me feel like a deadbeat...*sigh*) But I'm scared of garnishment. Atty is paid and we could file at any time.

[SMinGA]

If you're under median, 36 months should be your plan unless there are extra details to consider. (Like Pandora mentioned.)

The value of the truck should NOT be a problem - unless your non-exempt equity is excessive. At this point you're proposing a plan of $290 x 36 = $10,440. Some of that may be atty fees, so I'll assume at least $7,000 to creditors & the trustee. As long as your non-exempt assets do not exceed the part that goes to creditors (and maybe the trustee, not sure) then you're fine to keep them.

If you had $10k in non exempt assets and wanted to keep them, you'd need to pay at least $10k + whatever is paid to your atty in your plan.

[Pandora]

If you're under median, 36 months should be your plan unless there are extra details to consider. (Like Pandora mentioned.)

The value of the truck should NOT be a problem - unless your non-exempt equity is excessive. At this point you're proposing a plan of $290 x 36 = $10,440. Some of that may be atty fees, so I'll assume at least $7,000 to creditors & the trustee. As long as your non-exempt assets do not exceed the part that goes to creditors (and maybe the trustee, not sure) then you're fine to keep them.

If you had $10k in non exempt assets and wanted to keep them, you'd need to pay at least $10k + whatever is paid to your atty in your plan.

Oh - I should also like to add that our attorney's ORIGINAL plan was $425 that was submitted to the trustee.... that changed and went to $600 when all was said and done, and can be changed again until we're confirmed apparently.

So - is that $290 a ballpark figure based upon the initial sit down with your attorney or has it all been run through with your schedules completed? Therein lies the difference - make sure that number is with completed approved schedules, or it can change, like ours did.

[debtinohio]

Ahh, what the heck - I wish my attorney was as agressive. I say, go for it.

[ivehadit]

I'll try to answer the questions
1. have you run the means test yourself? I dont know how you can be over the median but still qualify for 36 months either. We qualify for 36 month but have to do the 60 month if we want to keep our assets (vehicles) since they are paid in full and we used up all our exemptions.
We did the means test at his office the way the plan was submitted all of our assets are exempt. With my vehicle exemption plus wild card I believe I can exempt up to $4400, maybe he wanted to lowball it to leave some negoating room.

2.So, during the three years, who sued you? Were you garnished?
My wife is judgement proof and up until march she was the only one to be sued, GEMB first Dec 08 and this May by Chase. In March I was sued by two local companies that sells seed/fertilizer and Huntington bank for my HELOC the seed/fertilizer debts are three yrs old also. I have several thousand in CC debt and they haven't attempted to sue the entire time. All three of these came after me very agressively and seemed to be in a race to get the first garnishment I believe I was within a couple weeks of that happening. Good luck I hope you make it two or plus yrs.

3.The value of the truck should NOT be a problem - unless your non-exempt equity is excessive. At this point you're proposing a plan of $290 x 36 = $10,440. Some of that may be atty fees, so I'll assume at least $7,000 to creditors & the trustee. As long as your non-exempt assets do not exceed the part that goes to creditors (and maybe the trustee, not sure) then you're fine to keep them.
I have $4600 mortgage arrears in the plan so $2400 away from $7000

4.So - is that $290 a ballpark figure based upon the initial sit down with your attorney or has it all been run through with your schedules completed? Therein lies the difference - make sure that number is with completed approved schedules, or it can change, like ours did
$290 is not from the initial sitdown it is it is after all forms filled out and filed as the plan. I hope it doesn't change much or we will have no other choice than to convert to a 7. Whitch brings up an important point, if we have to convert would I be allowed to sell my truck to bring my mortgage current to qualify for a 7?

[angles]

When valuing our assets our attorney told us to use the trade in values not wholesale or retail. Are you looking at the right category?

[muzzey58]

I wish I could have listened to my gut about using my first lawyer. We are still trying to clean up our case after his advice. He told us to raise the number of withholding allowance to offset a tax refund for the year we filed. That was 2006. We ended up getting just over $105 in a refund. My husband before we got married was getting refunds of close to $4000 because of filing single/1. We raised our allowances to married filing jointly/10. Which royally messed us up. We owed $7000 in back taxes to the IRS the next year. In 2008, we owed $4200. In 2009, $1800. So no matter what we try to readjust our withholding allowances we are still owing the IRS. You need a really good experienced attorney to handle any bankruptcy case. The system is being so overburdened because of the current economic conditions. My attorney today told me that our local court is so overwhelmed that they can't hire enough staff to keep up with the demands. The attorneys, Trustees and courts are being overwhelmed right now. I would have liked to have been able to do the median tests myself before we filed. That way I could have stopped working before we filed at least a year, but we were being sued for an old "ancient" unsecured credit card from 1991. The statute of limitations in Ohio is close to 15 years. I think is back in the days of the 1930's. So we filed to get the debts off our backs. I think that the credit card companies anticipated a downturn and were suing everybody that owed them money. I hurt myself in 2005 while working as a nurse aide and had to quit working as an aide. I went to work at a local grocery store as a cashier. If I hadn't worked we would have been able to file a chapter 7. My advice for you is file a chapter 7. No house, no vehicle is worth dealing with a chapter 13. It keeps you bond up for a lengthy period of time. So if I were you then I would not do everything yourself. If you do a chapter 7 then after a few months your case is discharged and you can buy a newer truck. In a chapter 13 you are tied up with court payments, can't take out new credit unless approved by the court. In a chapter 7 all your debt is relinquished and discharged more promptly. We have been in this rollercoaster for nearly 4 years in November and will be out of it in December 2011. That's almost 18 months still. We have paid over $50,000+ to the bankruptcy court. That's why I'm saying that a chapter 7 is the best course for anyone. Only 25 to 33% of all chapter 13 confirmed cases are discharged. That's a really low percentage. If you abandon the plan then the creditors can come after you once the protection order is lifted. So do a chapter 7 and not a chapter 13. It's a ball and chain around you for a long time. I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic. Good luck

[Pandora]

I wish I could have listened to my gut about using my first lawyer. We are still trying to clean up our case after his advice. He told us to raise the number of withholding allowance to offset a tax refund for the year we filed. That was 2006. We ended up getting just over $105 in a refund. My husband before we got married was getting refunds of close to $4000 because of filing single/1. We raised our allowances to married filing jointly/10. Which royally messed us up. We owed $7000 in back taxes to the IRS the next year. In 2008, we owed $4200. In 2009, $1800. So no matter what we try to readjust our withholding allowances we are still owing the IRS. You need a really good experienced attorney to handle any bankruptcy case. The system is being so overburdened because of the current economic conditions. My attorney today told me that our local court is so overwhelmed that they can't hire enough staff to keep up with the demands. The attorneys, Trustees and courts are being overwhelmed right now. I would have liked to have been able to do the median tests myself before we filed. That way I could have stopped working before we filed at least a year, but we were being sued for an old "ancient" unsecured credit card from 1991. The statute of limitations in Ohio is close to 15 years. I think is back in the days of the 1930's. So we filed to get the debts off our backs. I think that the credit card companies anticipated a downturn and were suing everybody that owed them money. I hurt myself in 2005 while working as a nurse aide and had to quit working as an aide. I went to work at a local grocery store as a cashier. If I hadn't worked we would have been able to file a chapter 7. My advice for you is file a chapter 7. No house, no vehicle is worth dealing with a chapter 13. It keeps you bond up for a lengthy period of time. So if I were you then I would not do everything yourself. If you do a chapter 7 then after a few months your case is discharged and you can buy a newer truck. In a chapter 13 you are tied up with court payments, can't take out new credit unless approved by the court. In a chapter 7 all your debt is relinquished and discharged more promptly. We have been in this rollercoaster for nearly 4 years in November and will be out of it in December 2011. That's almost 18 months still. We have paid over $50,000+ to the bankruptcy court. That's why I'm saying that a chapter 7 is the best course for anyone. Only 25 to 33% of all chapter 13 confirmed cases are discharged. That's a really low percentage. If you abandon the plan then the creditors can come after you once the protection order is lifted. So do a chapter 7 and not a chapter 13. It's a ball and chain around you for a long time. I'm not being negative, I'm being realistic. Good luck

I'm sorry you've had such a bad experience - but I've got to disagree and say that no, everyone shouldnt file Ch. 7, it depends on the circumstances. First, not everyone CAN file CH. 7 - you filed under the old laws, new laws went into affect I believe in 2005, so now you have to qualify for either Chapter.

Not everyone thinks CH. 13 is a bad thing - there are situations and circumstances where it is best for the individual and their family. We wanted to keep our house and assets, and can - under Chapter 13 - and can afford the house long term in the plan - and after the plan. We make sure our vehicles are in working order and they are newer than not, so we dont have to worry about that. Will expenses come up? Yes...they will - but thats what we budgeted for in our plan - everything we could think of, we put in, and so far, its been do-able. Could we use more? Sure...but we're not starving and the bills are all paid, and we even have extra money for recreation. So, its not as bad as you're making it sound - but then again, it depends on the attorney as well and how well prepared one is also.

As far as credit and being approved by the court - yes - but thats obvious, you're trying to repay a portion of your debts to creditors that you're dimissing thousands of dollars for next to nothing - why wouldnt you need permission in order to get more credit? Thats logical - and you have to be able to afford it along with your Ch. 13 plan, so..makes sense to me.

If you can no longer afford your Ch. 13 plan, you dont abandon it - you convert it to a Ch. 7. If you dismiss it, then yes, the creditors can come back and get you for interest, etc... so dont dismiss, ..convert.

It sounds like you had a bad attorney I would've tried to go to an accountant and had the tax issue addressed there after the very first screw up with the taxes. I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope that you're able to push through your final 18 months without incident.