Plan Confirm but Claims Still Coming In

[Universal]

Our plan has been confirmed but the time to file claims is not up. Two more creditors filed claims yesterday bringing the total claimed so far to a couple thousand more than what our plan has allowed payment for total-wise. What happens now? Will we be required to raise our payment? Thanks.

[newbie2]

Our plan has been confirmed but the time to file claims is not up. Two more creditors filed claims yesterday bringing the total claimed so far to a couple thousand more than what our plan has allowed payment for total-wise. What happens now? Will we be required to raise our payment? Thanks.

Are you in a 100% plan because of your DMI? If not, don't worry about it. If you are then go over those claims with a fine tooth comb and make sure they are accurate.

[Universal]

Yes, we are in a 100% payback.
Here is language cited in the Order Confirming: "
The total amount stated to be paid into the Plan is based on the assumption that all payments will be made in a timely manner, that the total payments will be sufficient to pay all allowed secured, priority, and administrative claims in full, and that the
Trustee fee percentage will not increase during the life of the Plan. Late payments will increase the interest paid on secured claims and will, in turn, increase the total amount to be paid in the Plan. The total of payments must at least pay all allowed secured, priority, and administrative claims in full."

I read that to mean that as long as secured liens, fees, etc., are covered with the amount used as the total pay back figure, that we will not have to add more to it. Opinions, please. Thanks.

[newbie2]

Yes, we are in a 100% payback.
Here is language cited in the Order Confirming: "
The total amount stated to be paid into the Plan is based on the assumption that all payments will be made in a timely manner, that the total payments will be sufficient to pay all allowed secured, priority, and administrative claims in full, and that the
Trustee fee percentage will not increase during the life of the Plan. Late payments will increase the interest paid on secured claims and will, in turn, increase the total amount to be paid in the Plan. The total of payments must at least pay all allowed secured, priority, and administrative claims in full."

I read that to mean that as long as secured liens, fees, etc., are covered with the amount used as the total pay back figure, that we will not have to add more to it. Opinions, please. Thanks.

I hope others can chime in here (that have been through this). I have nada to offer. (Not in a 100% payback). The language though leads me to believe that they have already used all your disposable income and the new claims wouldn't increase your plan. Hope this is the case!

[NoTomatoCan]

Yes, we are in a 100% payback.
Here is language cited in the Order Confirming: "
The total amount stated to be paid into the Plan is based on the assumption that all payments will be made in a timely manner, that the total payments will be sufficient to pay all allowed secured, priority, and administrative claims in full, and that the
Trustee fee percentage will not increase during the life of the Plan. Late payments will increase the interest paid on secured claims and will, in turn, increase the total amount to be paid in the Plan. The total of payments must at least pay all allowed secured, priority, and administrative claims in full."

I read that to mean that as long as secured liens, fees, etc., are covered with the amount used as the total pay back figure, that we will not have to add more to it. Opinions, please. Thanks.

I believe all that is saying is that all secured, priority, and administrative claims must be paid in full during the life of the plan, along with Trustee fees. That is true for all CH13 plans, so this seems like standard language.

If the amount you are currently paying into your plan is 100% of your DMI, then you wouldn't have your monthly payment go up. It might take longer to pay back 100% if you were slated to have paid 100% in less than 60 months, or you might end up paying back something less than 100%.

[Universal]

Would I be correct in thinking that if there were no objections to our plan, which none were filed, so the plan total is what it is and any additional unsecured creditors who file simply will not get 100% back. The creditors who are now filing are balances apparently owed on surrendered property. Can a creditor file an objection after confirmation?

[Pandora]

I dont know - I thought it was if you're in 100% payback that all secured, lawyer fees get paid first - then any unsecured get the scraps, if there is any left over. So say your amount is XX for payback (like ours is approx 40K due to assets we wanted to keep after all allowed exemptions) - and our total claims will be over 80K (prop tax, 2nd mortgage, laywer fee, trustee fee) - then the only amount we'll ever have to pay is the 40K no matter what as thats all we have over and above all exemptions if trustee liquidated in a CH. 7 and all of our DMI is going towards that payback. So if it exceeds our 40K - I guess its too bad for them as its all unsecured other than our property taxes which is the only secured claim we have.

Whether our lawyer is right...remains to be seen, but God I hope so....

[SMinGA]

I think there is confusion over '100% payback'. The payback % that people speak of usually refers to what % goes to unsecured.

Unless your DMI is sufficient that it can pay all secured/priority/administrative AND pay back all of your unsecured in under 60 months, you really can't know what % payback (to unsecured) it will be til after all claims are in. If your plan is confirmed, more claims just mean that all of those who filed claims get paid some.

If you plan payment/DMI allows for payment to unsecured of $40k and $40k or less in claims come in, you'll be 100% payback. If more than $40k claims happen, then you'll be at a lower payback %.

Plans don't automatically require a % payback. You may have a minimum $ amount you must pay (to cover secured/priority/administrative and/or 'buy back' assets, for example) but never a minimum %. That is determined based on your DMI, what $ is left for unsecured after the secured/priority/administrative and what claim amounts are filed.

[Universal]

Under Deadlines/Hearings on Pacer it says the following:

Objection to Plan "satisfied" on 5/25/10 and nothing under 'terminated'

Objection to Dischargeability, under 'terminated' says 3/14/10;
and
under Proof of Claim it says 'due' 7/27/10.

I take this to mean creditors can still file claims but cannot object to the plan in overall, or the amounts they are/are not getting.

We kept our house trailer and my car which we are paying fully for in our plan.

So, does 100% payback really mean secured creditors are getting 100% and what is left over trickle downs and covers at least what the creditor would get if we had been in a Ch 7 instead of Ch 13.??
(I am staring to confuse myself here - lol)

[Pandora]

I think there is confusion over '100% payback'. The payback % that people speak of usually refers to what % goes to unsecured.

Unless your DMI is sufficient that it can pay all secured/priority/administrative AND pay back all of your unsecured in under 60 months, you really can't know what % payback (to unsecured) it will be til after all claims are in. If your plan is confirmed, more claims just mean that all of those who filed claims get paid some.

If you plan payment/DMI allows for payment to unsecured of $40k and $40k or less in claims come in, you'll be 100% payback. If more than $40k claims happen, then you'll be at a lower payback %.

Plans don't automatically require a % payback. You may have a minimum $ amount you must pay (to cover secured/priority/administrative and/or 'buy back' assets, for example) but never a minimum %. That is determined based on your DMI, what $ is left for unsecured after the secured/priority/administrative and what claim amounts are filed.

Yeah..thats what I was trying to say LOL Thanks for clarifying it... Good lord brain..

ETA: *screeching halt* Wait a sec... Hey SM - does it change once you're confirmed (the %) ?? On PACER and on Data13 we are showing 100% payback and our $ monthly is exactly what our assets are at (what we exceeded in exemptions and wanted to keep). Everything is unsecured except our prop. taxes, and the lawyer - so that just leaves our 2nd mortgage which we're stripping - and that is about twice what we're in payback for (80K vs. 40K). our lawyer said it will never change (payment or %) - the only thing that will change is if the 2nd doesnt file a claim (fingers crossed,....but highly unlikely I know) - then we'll just owe the prop taxes and lawyer fees, and whatever trustee fee we have.

???

[catleg]

Your ch13 plan payment is approved based on your ability to pay, and also the requirement to pay "as much as in a chapter 7 liquidation". If you don't meet those 2 tests your plan can't be approved.

Ch13 pays secured and priority debts first, with any scraps to unsecured. Normally if you can't pay off these debts, either in full or the contracted amount if less, then you can't get a plan approved.

Then whatever is left goes to unsecured.

So the unsecured creditors can pile in, but their claims aren't going to affect your plan payments at all. They just get a pro-rata share of whatever pot is left for them.

In theory if there are less unsecured claims than expected, then you can possibly get out of your plan early.

Note that student loans are non-dischargeable, but are also unsecured debts which get money from the pot like every other unsecured creditor.

But really ch13 is designed to favor secured debts and priority debts over unsecured debts.

I hope I got that all right. :-)

[Universal]

Thanks all for your answers and input. You have answered my questions and given me additional info., which I appreciate so much. Thanks again to all.
That 1,240 a month going out leaves me less than half of each of my checks every 2 weeks, a big OUCH to me, and I didn't want to have to worry about it going higher based on some miscalculation of monies owed to various entities.

[SMinGA]

ETA: *screeching halt* Wait a sec... Hey SM - does it change once you're confirmed (the %) ?? On PACER and on Data13 we are showing 100% payback and our $ monthly is exactly what our assets are at (what we exceeded in exemptions and wanted to keep).

I don't think the % in Pacer/Data 13 are important. Before I dismissed, mine all showed 0% to unsecured even though my original plan would have paid a small amount to them.

[Chicken123]

We too had claims coming in right under the wire, we filed back in april of last yr and was confirmed in october...I just noticed today that on our chapter 13 website (13nationaldatacenter) that the trustee just added this in our claims page..100% payback to lawyer, car loans and all other's (being the credit cards) 11.35% payback

[Universal]

Chicken123 - Thanks so much for your response. Everyone has been so helpful.
BTW - GO COLTS. Hate that training camp will be moving back to Anderson from Terre Haute, but oh... well......