Ch 13 ending soon, Still back child support

[justme101]

Hello

I am new to the forum and i have some questions
our Ch 13 will be ending in the next 5-7 months..when we filed my husband had/has a large sum in back for child support..in the 40,000..long story he served 6 years in jail and it kept accruing .. making payment to thats and the current was differcult...he lost his licenese we filled due to the CS and other things...

we were to pay 10,000 in the 13 to the CS..and our attorneys plan is to refile...
but even though we have paid almost the full 10,000 it still in the 40,000s due to interest.

its been very nice having our income tax checks in the last 4 years

but we want a better plan for the future..we have 2 young kids..we would like to someday be able to purchase things like cars and homes. we cant stay in a bankruptcy forever..we cant buy a home..we tried this year. our goal was to buy a home and maybe borrow against it to pay the CS off..but of course because of the tax lien it fell through.

and im trying to remember correctly if we/he (its joint right now) has to refile do we have to include everything in his name?..do we have to give up any assets we have accrued over the years.

we want to pay the CS...but we want to live too..we want to be like every normal American family..buy a home..have a running car that we didnt buy from a buy here pay here and pay for it 3 times due to interest rates..save for the kids for college..etc...

i also know that once we file again we have to be in the bankruptcy several years to attempt to purchase a home

my questions are:

is there any hope? can we have a GOOD plan...to over come the child support? be able to purchase a home?

what should/can we do? should we just continue to file ch 13s and stay renting and paying more for things which makes it harder to over come

is there anything we can do with the child support?..

is there any way to keep receiving our income tax returns?

advice appreciate it...THANK YOU

[lrprn]

First, it's admirable that you both want to do the right thing.

The key here is that (as you know) you can't discharge court-ordered child support by filing bankruptcy. However, if it's possible to pay off the $40K + interest owed in five years, then a new Ch 13 plan can help reorganize all your debt again.

Is your disposable income enough to pay off $40K plus interest in five years? If no, then filing another 13 may not help you very much.

Have you two considered meeting with a few local lawyers with expertise in child support? It sounds like your spouse's financial circumstances have changed which can justify reviewing the amount of support required, or at least lower the interest charged to make the amount more manageable. It's worth exploring as another possible option in your situation.

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

Ok, my response is going to be a little harsh ...

Why are you worried about keeping your assets and your tax returns?

First, the child support is nondischargeable ... meaning it must be paid (and it continues to accrue interest). And to top it off, you said you have a tax lien (and now that's a problem too). That means you have all this nondischargeable debt that is hanging over you and causing you tremendous grief. And you're worried about your stuff.

If the "stuff" will pay the debts ... THEN SELL THE STUFF! AND PAY THE DEBTS!

The debts aren't going away.

The stuff can be reacquired after you pay the debts.

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING KEEPING YOUR TAX REFUNDS! I would've taken that and attempted to drive down the child support and taxes.

Everything you need to do should be geared towards getting rid of those debts.

Your priorities are mixed up.

I'm sorry, but apparently your attorney did nothing to drive down the debts - and he got his fee, and now wants another fee to refile - he'll like you ... a repeat client. You should insist that any new 13 be specifically structured to ridding you of the debt, even if that means you have to sell assets. Bankruptcy should provide you with a fresh start ... not the need to keep resorting to bankruptcy. Sounds like bad planning was your problem.

[justme101]

First, it's admirable that you both want to do the right thing.

The key here is that (as you know) you can't discharge court-ordered child support by filing bankruptcy. However, if it's possible to pay off the $40K + interest owed in five years, then a new Ch 13 plan can help reorganize all your debt again.

Is your disposable income enough to pay off $40K plus interest in five years? If no, then filing another 13 may not help you very much.

Have you two considered meeting with a few local lawyers with expertise in child support? It sounds like your spouse's financial circumstances have changed which can justify reviewing the amount of support required, or at least lower the interest charged to make the amount more manageable. It's worth exploring as another possible option in your situation.

with including the cs in bankruptcy you can only include 10,000 at a time

i also dont think there is any way to pay if off in 5 years..if that was the case we would have done so..but it occurs 9% intereste yearly or something like that..so it just continues to grow...

i have spoken to one person about getting the amount lowered..but they i have to have attorny fees and court fees..not sure if we can do that while in the current bankruptcy

Thank you

[justme101]

Ok, my response is going to be a little harsh ...

Why are you worried about keeping your assets and your tax returns?

First, the child support is nondischargeable ... meaning it must be paid (and it continues to accrue interest). And to top it off, you said you have a tax lien (and now that's a problem too). That means you have all this nondischargeable debt that is hanging over you and causing you tremendous grief. And you're worried about your stuff.

If the "stuff" will pay the debts ... THEN SELL THE STUFF! AND PAY THE DEBTS!

The debts aren't going away.

The stuff can be reacquired after you pay the debts.

WHAT WERE YOU THINKING KEEPING YOUR TAX REFUNDS! I would've taken that and attempted to drive down the child support and taxes.

Everything you need to do should be geared towards getting rid of those debts.

Your priorities are mixed up.

I'm sorry, but apparently your attorney did nothing to drive down the debts - and he got his fee, and now wants another fee to refile - he'll like you ... a repeat client. You should insist that any new 13 be specifically structured to ridding you of the debt, even if that means you have to sell assets. Bankruptcy should provide you with a fresh start ... not the need to keep resorting to bankruptcy. Sounds like bad planning was your problem.

we dont have assets we are renting because we cannot obtain a home due to the child support which will attach a tax lien as soon as home would be purchased BUT no one will sell to us because of that..

no assets we have will pay the debt...we have one car thats worth 3000 and one truck we are making payments on that we are paying twice as much for because its a buy here pay here..no real assets and no chance to aquire assets

yes i would like to keep the income tax.. it comes in handy we are a family with things that pops up all the time

i do not WANT to be a repeat client
i have NO PROBLEM paying the child support
bad planning with the attorney mayhaps...and we KNOW we do not want to use him again..he was a real card in my opinion but supposedly he holds something here because when u talk to other attorneys and they ask his name they no longer talk to you.

apparently my proprieties are in order...this is something i want taken care of, appropriately and correctly...i think you TOTALLY miss read my post

[NoMoreCards]

Because the debt is not dischargable, I do not see a point in refiling at all.

I must be missing something.

[justme101]

Because the debt is not dischargable, I do not see a point in refiling at all.

I must be missing something.

the reasoning is to keep them from attaching leins
garnishing wages
taking income tax returns
taking dr licenses

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

the reasoning is to keep them from attaching leins
garnishing wages
taking income tax returns
taking dr licenses

And instead, pay 5k in attorney fees, 6-10% to the Trustee, etc.

[justme101]

And instead, pay 5k in attorney fees, 6-10% to the Trustee, etc.

thats not our intent
also if its not in the bankruptcy they take my husband dr license which he needs for his employment

have your read my op? im looking for an alternative to filing again
i have paid my attorney 1800.00 not 5000.00
as for the trustee i have no clue..seems he deducts whatever from my payments

i want the child support controlled but im looking for someone with either experience or knowledge of how to go about it...not to banter back and forth

i would love for it to be a set amount that we pay each month to the child support and that they wont be able to touch savings or tax returns and drivers licensing and not prevent us from buying a home...i would love to buy a home and then take a loan out just to pay them off..and ill pay on a fix loan for 10 years or what ever it takes but i just dont think it would work that way...but the way CS works it will be a never ending debt...

[StartingOver08]

Just based on your post, it sounds like your attorney either was not paying attention to your needs OR he/she did not have enough Ch 13 experience.

The whole point is to file and take care of the non-dischargeable debt first in your plan. You have two significant debts - IRS and Child Support. The trustee's fee is fixed in each district and the attorney gets a fee in your plan. It sounds like the plan was not a good plan for your specific issues. Both the IRS and Child Support issues have to be cleared before you can even think of buying a house.

As to keeping the tax refunds, I hear you, but really your budget needs to be made (if you are in a Ch 13 or not) assuming that you will not get a refund, that all refunds will go toward reducing the IRS debt you currently owe. You can make an installment plan with the IRS and pay it monthly, but if you are going to file another 13 you may as well make that and the CS (+ attorney fees and trustee percentage) your plan payment. It really sounds like you have not compiled a realistic spending plan that will solve your issues.

If you file another Ch 13 - really interview many attorney's and find one that will plan the 13 with an eye to getting you out of this mess. JMO, it looks like the current 13 was a waste of time and effort! The attorney works for you. You have to interview him to make sure he is going to do a good job and keep looking until you get a good one.

BTW, as far as what "normal" is now...there is a new normal. Payments on vehicles and cc's are not the way to go. House payments need to be affordable and many people are finding that there is nothing wrong with renting - especially now if you don't have the savings for a significant down payment and good to excellent credit. If you can fix where you are now - in 3 to 5 yrs you will be in shape to buy something - once you are discharged and all of this arreage is paid up.

Does your husband have a job now? What is limiting the payment on the arreage to $10k, the budget or the plan payment?

[justme101]

OK MAYBE I DIDNT EXPLAIN THIS RIGHT
WE DO NOT OWE IRS and DID NOT HAVE TO INDLUDE THEM IN THE 13 THE TAX LIEN WOULD BE FROM THE CHILD SUPPORT IF WE EVER BOUGHT ANYTHING

OUR MAIN DEBT IS THE CHILD SUPPORT

[justme101]

Just based on your post, it sounds like your attorney either was not paying attention to your needs OR he/she did not have enough Ch 13 experience.

The whole point is to file and take care of the non-dischargeable debt first in your plan. You have two significant debts - IRS and Child Support. The trustee's fee is fixed in each district and the attorney gets a fee in your plan. It sounds like the plan was not a good plan for your specific issues. Both the IRS and Child Support issues have to be cleared before you can even think of buying a house.

As to keeping the tax refunds, I hear you, but really your budget needs to be made (if you are in a Ch 13 or not) assuming that you will not get a refund, that all refunds will go toward reducing the IRS debt you currently owe. You can make an installment plan with the IRS and pay it monthly, but if you are going to file another 13 you may as well make that and the CS (+ attorney fees and trustee percentage) your plan payment. It really sounds like you have not compiled a realistic spending plan that will solve your issues.

If you file another Ch 13 - really interview many attorney's and find one that will plan the 13 with an eye to getting you out of this mess. JMO, it looks like the current 13 was a waste of time and effort! The attorney works for you. You have to interview him to make sure he is going to do a good job and keep looking until you get a good one.

BTW, as far as what "normal" is now...there is a new normal. Payments on vehicles and cc's are not the way to go. House payments need to be affordable and many people are finding that there is nothing wrong with renting - especially now if you don't have the savings for a significant down payment and good to excellent credit. If you can fix where you are now - in 3 to 5 yrs you will be in shape to buy something - once you are discharged and all of this arreage is paid up.

Does your husband have a job now? What is limiting the payment on the arreage to $10k, the budget or the plan payment?

being i corrected the irs thing in my last post ill skip that because thats a non existent problem..no irs debt never has been

i truly believe we get scammed by every person we get involved with
this bankruptcy attorney used to be a political person or something of that nature..we had to pay him extra to see us one night and move things along to get my husbands license back
he has never been without a job long, and is employed....makes good money but the child support holds us back..

the attorneys plan sucks he wants him to continue filling until its paid which i do not think will happen that way with the interest

we were told we could only include 10,000 in cs at a time...thats all i know...

we got sucked by some realtors and a loan officer faking to help us get a house...we can come up with money for a down payment..my husband works hard and makes good money..but not enough to pay 40,000 in child support...

[justme101]

i know there is nothing wrong with renting but after living in the same home for 5 years and KNOWING 35,000 of renting could have been applied to a home of our own..its pretty depressing

[StartingOver08]

OK MAYBE I DIDNT EXPLAIN THIS RIGHT
WE DO NOT OWE IRS and DID NOT HAVE TO INDLUDE THEM IN THE 13 THE TAX LIEN WOULD BE FROM THE CHILD SUPPORT IF WE EVER BOUGHT ANYTHING

OUR MAIN DEBT IS THE CHILD SUPPORT

I'm sorry. I did not understand that the tax lien was because of the child support. My mistake.

[Flamingo]

thats not our intent
also if its not in the bankruptcy they take my husband dr license which he needs for his employment

have your read my op? im looking for an alternative to filing again
i have paid my attorney 1800.00 not 5000.00
as for the trustee i have no clue..seems he deducts whatever from my payments

i want the child support controlled but im looking for someone with either experience or knowledge of how to go about it...not to banter back and forthi would love for it to be a set amount that we pay each month to the child support and that they wont be able to touch savings or tax returns and drivers licensing and not prevent us from buying a home...i would love to buy a home and then take a loan out just to pay them off..and ill pay on a fix loan for 10 years or what ever it takes but i just dont think it would work that way...but the way CS works it will be a never ending debt...

You need to get a family law attorney experienced with child support to review your entire situation and maybe petition the court to lower payments due to changes in your husband's circumstances. That probably should have been done a long time ago. If you don't have the funds to hire an attorney, call your State Bar Association (in the phone book under your state section or could be under "Lawyers"), explain your situation...there are attorneys who will do pro bono work if there are certain circumstances and since you are having money issues it never hurts to try/ask. I don't think you would be eligible for free Legal Aid. In any event, you need your entire child support situation reviewed inasmuch as if his circumstances changed in the past and the child support was not lowered or modified, that can all be reviewed and the amount owed possibly lowered. However, you have to get counsel to handle/review all that for you.