I am starting this thread to record our journey through chapter 13. This thread has two purposes – first to keep us motivated to stick to our plan by being able to see major milestones as we hit them and secondly to provide entertainment or information to others who are contemplating filing. Sorry for how long this post is.
Won’t provide a lot of backstory, but basically took out some high interest personal loans after making some bad financial decisions last year. Then had to take out more loans to pay of the first. By the time we realized we were trapped, we had killed our credit scores. Spent four months this year trying to find a lender to either refinance either our mortgage or HELOC or get a third mortgage. We have 40% equity in our house but our credit scores were too low by the time we tried. Also tried to work with the creditors to just freeze the interest for a few months so we could catch up. So, instead of an interest freeze of a couple of months, they will now have an interest freeze of 60 months. Their loss. During this time, we went through all of our reserves, and then some, keeping up with payments.
Our filing is in Kansas (Kansas City area trustee). 100% plan for 60 months. Including mortgage, HELOC and two cars in the plan. Cars have between 20 and 24 payments remaining on their loans. The plan that was submitted took the entire auto loan balance and spread it over the 60 months. I don’t think any adjustment was made for the TILL rate. For the mortgages, the plan included the missed April and May payments spread over 60 months and adds the current monthly payments to keep us current.
Timeline:
End of April, beginning of May contacted an attorney and discussed filing. Put some pressure on the attorney to see if we could get filed by 5/13/2022 if possible. This was my next pay date and wanted to get the automatic stay, if possible, so I could stop ACHs before they hit our bank. Came close, but missed it a little bit.
5/8/2022 – provided lawyer with all of the debts that we knew about – lender name, amount, website and account information
5/11/2022 – we did the first required credit counseling
5/17/2022 – case filed
5/18/2022 – signed up with TFS incase wage order wasn’t in place – didn’t want to miss the 6/17/2022 (might have been 6/16/2022 – not sure how they count from filing) deadline for first month’s payment and get dismissed before we even started
5/18/2022 – also signed up at ndc.org so we could track our case.
5/20/2022 – “BNC” wage order issued
5/24/2022 – I could see the wage order in our HR / payroll system – will monitor on 5/27/2022 to see if it actually comes off from the paycheck
5/25/2022 – first creditors appear on NDC with additional ones showing up on 5/26/2022.
As I said in another thread, our initial proposed payment looks high – our filing listed all creditors that our lawyer found, but four were duplicate entries for about $10,000. So far, from the creditors that have submitted two small surprises – Verizon submitted for phones that we were paying through our monthly bill. This should end up being a wash as our monthly bill should then decrease. Also, a really old medical debt from our daughter’s visit to an emergency room showed up. I had totally forgot about this, so $1,200 that wasn’t in our plan showed up between the two. On the plus side the other 6 that have submitted are about 200 lower than we had in our plan. So, $1,000 of the original $10,000 overstatement has disappeared.
Speaking with our lawyer, it should be possible to true up the payment before our confirmation hearing after all of the proof of claims have been filed. Obviously, if more debt comes in than what we listed, the trustee will want the payment increased. If it is lower, we will want the payment decreased. If we get our reserves built back up, we can start to make voluntary payments if we want to end early, but for now I would prefer the additional money monthly and use the full 60 months to pay of the unsecured debt
Some questions that I don’t know the answer to yet:
What is the true fee – our lawyer said 8%, paperwork says up to 10% and our trustee’s site has this:
Current Trustee Fees and Discount Rates of Interest
Month: Discount Rate: Trustee Fee:
March 17 2020 4.75% 6%
June 1 2020 4.75% 8%
August 1 2021 4.75% 1%
October 1 2021 4.75% 6%
Is PACER necessary – I see several of the members of this board track things in PACER. We are enrolled for email notifications of orders and hearings. And at least so far, our lawyer and his paralegal have been very responsive.
Can I get a credit card - secured or unsecured doesn't matter. I mostly work remotely, but need to be in the office 2-3 days a week. Work is 180 miles from home, so it is more convenient to stay overnight in a hotel. Cost doesn't change, but if I pay with a debit card, an additional $150 hold is placed on my account. The hold is eventually released, but our plan payments are going to keep our bank accounts pretty low for the next few months. Paying with a credit card would be much easier.
Do we continue to send in paystubs each pay period or just until our plan is confirmed? I know this is a question for our lawyer, but I wanted to write it down somewhere so I don’t forget.
Does trustee make mortgage payments even before plan is confirmed? Again a question for our lawyer. I want to get all of my questions together and send his paralegal just one email with all of the questions rather than bombard him with a thousand emails.
When to make a complaint about violating the automatic stay. As some creditors have already submitted claims, I know the notice has been sent out to creditors. There is one creditor I have spoken to twice and gave them the case number and our lawyer’s information. They still call five times a day 8:00, 10:00, 12:00, 2:00 and 4;00 leaving messages at the 8:00 and 4:00 call. I have taken a screen shot at the end of each day showing the call history. They also text and email once a day. One other also calls three times a day 9:15, 2:15 and 6:15 but use a fake phone number and don’t leave a message. Once I know everyone has been notified, I will answer the call and see who they are.
Does our community know of other things I should keep an eye on between now and our 341 hearing (scheduled for 6/22/2022)? Or other things I should clarify with our lawyer.
Sorry for being long winded – it’s a character flaw of mine. My wife says when someone asks me what time it is, I tell them how to build a watch.
Won’t provide a lot of backstory, but basically took out some high interest personal loans after making some bad financial decisions last year. Then had to take out more loans to pay of the first. By the time we realized we were trapped, we had killed our credit scores. Spent four months this year trying to find a lender to either refinance either our mortgage or HELOC or get a third mortgage. We have 40% equity in our house but our credit scores were too low by the time we tried. Also tried to work with the creditors to just freeze the interest for a few months so we could catch up. So, instead of an interest freeze of a couple of months, they will now have an interest freeze of 60 months. Their loss. During this time, we went through all of our reserves, and then some, keeping up with payments.
Our filing is in Kansas (Kansas City area trustee). 100% plan for 60 months. Including mortgage, HELOC and two cars in the plan. Cars have between 20 and 24 payments remaining on their loans. The plan that was submitted took the entire auto loan balance and spread it over the 60 months. I don’t think any adjustment was made for the TILL rate. For the mortgages, the plan included the missed April and May payments spread over 60 months and adds the current monthly payments to keep us current.
Timeline:
End of April, beginning of May contacted an attorney and discussed filing. Put some pressure on the attorney to see if we could get filed by 5/13/2022 if possible. This was my next pay date and wanted to get the automatic stay, if possible, so I could stop ACHs before they hit our bank. Came close, but missed it a little bit.
5/8/2022 – provided lawyer with all of the debts that we knew about – lender name, amount, website and account information
5/11/2022 – we did the first required credit counseling
5/17/2022 – case filed
5/18/2022 – signed up with TFS incase wage order wasn’t in place – didn’t want to miss the 6/17/2022 (might have been 6/16/2022 – not sure how they count from filing) deadline for first month’s payment and get dismissed before we even started
5/18/2022 – also signed up at ndc.org so we could track our case.
5/20/2022 – “BNC” wage order issued
5/24/2022 – I could see the wage order in our HR / payroll system – will monitor on 5/27/2022 to see if it actually comes off from the paycheck
5/25/2022 – first creditors appear on NDC with additional ones showing up on 5/26/2022.
As I said in another thread, our initial proposed payment looks high – our filing listed all creditors that our lawyer found, but four were duplicate entries for about $10,000. So far, from the creditors that have submitted two small surprises – Verizon submitted for phones that we were paying through our monthly bill. This should end up being a wash as our monthly bill should then decrease. Also, a really old medical debt from our daughter’s visit to an emergency room showed up. I had totally forgot about this, so $1,200 that wasn’t in our plan showed up between the two. On the plus side the other 6 that have submitted are about 200 lower than we had in our plan. So, $1,000 of the original $10,000 overstatement has disappeared.
Speaking with our lawyer, it should be possible to true up the payment before our confirmation hearing after all of the proof of claims have been filed. Obviously, if more debt comes in than what we listed, the trustee will want the payment increased. If it is lower, we will want the payment decreased. If we get our reserves built back up, we can start to make voluntary payments if we want to end early, but for now I would prefer the additional money monthly and use the full 60 months to pay of the unsecured debt
Some questions that I don’t know the answer to yet:
What is the true fee – our lawyer said 8%, paperwork says up to 10% and our trustee’s site has this:
Current Trustee Fees and Discount Rates of Interest
Month: Discount Rate: Trustee Fee:
March 17 2020 4.75% 6%
June 1 2020 4.75% 8%
August 1 2021 4.75% 1%
October 1 2021 4.75% 6%
Is PACER necessary – I see several of the members of this board track things in PACER. We are enrolled for email notifications of orders and hearings. And at least so far, our lawyer and his paralegal have been very responsive.
Can I get a credit card - secured or unsecured doesn't matter. I mostly work remotely, but need to be in the office 2-3 days a week. Work is 180 miles from home, so it is more convenient to stay overnight in a hotel. Cost doesn't change, but if I pay with a debit card, an additional $150 hold is placed on my account. The hold is eventually released, but our plan payments are going to keep our bank accounts pretty low for the next few months. Paying with a credit card would be much easier.
Do we continue to send in paystubs each pay period or just until our plan is confirmed? I know this is a question for our lawyer, but I wanted to write it down somewhere so I don’t forget.
Does trustee make mortgage payments even before plan is confirmed? Again a question for our lawyer. I want to get all of my questions together and send his paralegal just one email with all of the questions rather than bombard him with a thousand emails.
When to make a complaint about violating the automatic stay. As some creditors have already submitted claims, I know the notice has been sent out to creditors. There is one creditor I have spoken to twice and gave them the case number and our lawyer’s information. They still call five times a day 8:00, 10:00, 12:00, 2:00 and 4;00 leaving messages at the 8:00 and 4:00 call. I have taken a screen shot at the end of each day showing the call history. They also text and email once a day. One other also calls three times a day 9:15, 2:15 and 6:15 but use a fake phone number and don’t leave a message. Once I know everyone has been notified, I will answer the call and see who they are.
Does our community know of other things I should keep an eye on between now and our 341 hearing (scheduled for 6/22/2022)? Or other things I should clarify with our lawyer.
Sorry for being long winded – it’s a character flaw of mine. My wife says when someone asks me what time it is, I tell them how to build a watch.
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