So my 341 was today, and now it's also going to be in mid April. My wife is in freak out mode now!
The trustee sent us a request for documentation after we filed. It was a form letter asking for all kinds of things that don't apply to our case, but the things that do were fairly time intensive to prepare, especially since my wife and I wholly own an LLC for her photography business and while a minority owner I'm president and largest shareholder of a c-corp. It took a good full two days to gather everything, and considering the unfortunate complexity of our lives I wanted to be diligent about it.
The final zip file was 26MB and most of the documents were fully digital (selectable text and all) rather than scans, which gives you an idea of the number of documents (the photos of everything we own and around our house didn't actually take much space). I had to send the lawyer a dropbox link to the file since it was clearly too big to email.
Apparently he didn't think so and tried to email it to the email address on the document request letter and they say they didn't receive anything from him.
In fairness, they weren't ready until a week before the meeting, and the document does say it can be emailed in that case. The document read (emphasis theirs):
Surely he would have received a bounce message, but even if it did go through, shouldn't he have followed up with the trustee's office to make sure they received the document? I can imagine it could be different with law firms, but in my world you always follow up IRL on emails. And considering the request came a good 30 days before our meeting, there was plenty of time to set up an Epiq account as it requested.
The trustee spent a good two minutes grilling my lawyer about it and without missing a beat quickly looked at me after one of his responses and asked how much I paid in attorney fees. I know that's a standard question in the forms and is often asked at these meetings, but the way he said it and the way it was going my wife and I thought it was clearly a veiled insult. It certainly felt that way and I felt the same way having the meeting unraveled like that by a simple thing like this.
He then said we'd try to do the 341 with just the petition and determine offline after the docs are received if we needed to continue it to a new meeting. The rest of the interview went the way many pro se meetings sound like they go based on this forum. Far more questions than the previous 3 interviews we watched had received on similar topics. He even seemed to express interest in trying to sell our house himself, even though it's underwater by half (I'd love to live here mortgage-free for a few years to save up, but getting out of the house is one of our goals, so whatever).
I also dropped the ball, and have been kicking myself all the way home and as I write this. We were talking about the house, when he switched to asking why we filed and with my mind on the house I answered; because we needed to get out of the house and I'm nervous of them coming after me for the deficiency. Well, it's true, but woefully incomplete. Foreclosing on the house and stopping credit card payments was made necessary by having to take a 50% pay cut (splitting my old wage with the next largest shareholder in the company due to his day job downsizing him). I am a bit surprised that the trustee didn't fish for why we wanted to walk away, but he didn't so the record stands incomplete. So my question is, does it matter? Does the continuation meen I'll be able to clarify? Should I?
In the end he decided to continue it because it was clearly a complex case and he didn't have any of the documents he would need, like our personal tax returns and business returns. At least he was okay with limiting it to just me next time since, since my wife doesn't do anything at all with our personal or business finances and got out all the standard questions and verifications today, and it means bringing our 8 month old with us with both of us.
Our lawyer still thinks it's going to go into depositions after the next meeting. One of the reasons we went with the lawyer we did was because he was the only one who didn't think our 341 would be a breeze. We also figured (perhaps incorrectly?) that his primary focus on appeals and experience with businesses would mean he'd be better able to handhold a complex petition.
I still think it'll be okay because in the end there just isn't any valuable assets available to the trustee, but definitely more frustrating and time consuming than the standard bk.
The trustee sent us a request for documentation after we filed. It was a form letter asking for all kinds of things that don't apply to our case, but the things that do were fairly time intensive to prepare, especially since my wife and I wholly own an LLC for her photography business and while a minority owner I'm president and largest shareholder of a c-corp. It took a good full two days to gather everything, and considering the unfortunate complexity of our lives I wanted to be diligent about it.
The final zip file was 26MB and most of the documents were fully digital (selectable text and all) rather than scans, which gives you an idea of the number of documents (the photos of everything we own and around our house didn't actually take much space). I had to send the lawyer a dropbox link to the file since it was clearly too big to email.
Apparently he didn't think so and tried to email it to the email address on the document request letter and they say they didn't receive anything from him.
In fairness, they weren't ready until a week before the meeting, and the document does say it can be emailed in that case. The document read (emphasis theirs):
Documents should be uploaded via Epiq Document Delivery. You will receive, or may have already received, an electronic invitation from Epiq with instructions to activate an account. If the 341 Meeting is less than ten (10) days away and you have not received an invitation from Epiq, please immediately advise us by e-mail and please e-mail the responsive documents to [email redacted].
Surely he would have received a bounce message, but even if it did go through, shouldn't he have followed up with the trustee's office to make sure they received the document? I can imagine it could be different with law firms, but in my world you always follow up IRL on emails. And considering the request came a good 30 days before our meeting, there was plenty of time to set up an Epiq account as it requested.
The trustee spent a good two minutes grilling my lawyer about it and without missing a beat quickly looked at me after one of his responses and asked how much I paid in attorney fees. I know that's a standard question in the forms and is often asked at these meetings, but the way he said it and the way it was going my wife and I thought it was clearly a veiled insult. It certainly felt that way and I felt the same way having the meeting unraveled like that by a simple thing like this.
He then said we'd try to do the 341 with just the petition and determine offline after the docs are received if we needed to continue it to a new meeting. The rest of the interview went the way many pro se meetings sound like they go based on this forum. Far more questions than the previous 3 interviews we watched had received on similar topics. He even seemed to express interest in trying to sell our house himself, even though it's underwater by half (I'd love to live here mortgage-free for a few years to save up, but getting out of the house is one of our goals, so whatever).
I also dropped the ball, and have been kicking myself all the way home and as I write this. We were talking about the house, when he switched to asking why we filed and with my mind on the house I answered; because we needed to get out of the house and I'm nervous of them coming after me for the deficiency. Well, it's true, but woefully incomplete. Foreclosing on the house and stopping credit card payments was made necessary by having to take a 50% pay cut (splitting my old wage with the next largest shareholder in the company due to his day job downsizing him). I am a bit surprised that the trustee didn't fish for why we wanted to walk away, but he didn't so the record stands incomplete. So my question is, does it matter? Does the continuation meen I'll be able to clarify? Should I?
In the end he decided to continue it because it was clearly a complex case and he didn't have any of the documents he would need, like our personal tax returns and business returns. At least he was okay with limiting it to just me next time since, since my wife doesn't do anything at all with our personal or business finances and got out all the standard questions and verifications today, and it means bringing our 8 month old with us with both of us.
Our lawyer still thinks it's going to go into depositions after the next meeting. One of the reasons we went with the lawyer we did was because he was the only one who didn't think our 341 would be a breeze. We also figured (perhaps incorrectly?) that his primary focus on appeals and experience with businesses would mean he'd be better able to handhold a complex petition.
I still think it'll be okay because in the end there just isn't any valuable assets available to the trustee, but definitely more frustrating and time consuming than the standard bk.