BK in 2008, divorce in 2010 due to house foreclosure - anyone else

[BKFOURAB]

We filed BK, included our house (the real reason for the BK in the first place, never could afford the house). I had no knowledge that a place to sleep was so important to my wife. she said two weeks ago: "I knda thought that after we lost our house we would split up . . . didn't you?" My rresponse: "relationships are about people, not things. NO. I never thought moving out of a house we couldn't afford would cause us to divorce. In fact, for 25 years of marriage I thought NOTHING would ever seperate us".

Apparently, house foreclosure is a big deal for some people. Big enough deal to end a reelationship. Anyone else experience this?

[debee]

Does this mean you are getting divorced after all, BK - or just that you didn't know she was thinking about it two years ago when you lost your house?

[AngelinaCat]

We filed BK, included our house (the real reason for the BK in the first place, never could afford the house). I had no knowledge that a place to sleep was so important to my wife. she said two weeks ago: "I knda thought that after we lost our house we would split up . . . didn't you?" My rresponse: "relationships are about people, not things. NO. I never thought moving out of a house we couldn't afford would cause us to divorce. In fact, for 25 years of marriage I thought NOTHING would ever seperate us".

Apparently, house foreclosure is a big deal for some people. Big enough deal to end a reelationship. Anyone else experience this?

I see over and over, quarrels about money and 'things'. When 'Hub and I first thought about getting married in my church, we had to attend a 'pre-marriage' workshop. The majority of the speakers stressed, that it isn't issues such as infidelity that breaks up couples, it is how they handle MONEY issues, and THINGS issues.

I am afraid that you have had these issues from the very beginning.... As well as lack of communication?....

I wish you the best.

[AngelinaCatHub]

My friend: After 25 years, you say that a house is causing a divorce? This house thing and this bk thing did NOT happen overnight. I do not know both sides so I comment only on what you wrote.

It is a shallow marriage if a "Thing" keeps two people together. I've said this once before recently, a Marriage is ONE person. It consists of two human beings, but the marriage itself is one person.

Do you have children? Ages? I hope not.

A HOUSE is NOT a home. A TENT can be a home if that is what you have.

Purchase a Boy Scout Handbook and you will never starve. We were most fortunate, but if we lost all, we would live in the woods, bathe in the river, and eat a lot of fish and squirrel, but we would be together.

I hope your situation is a great exaggeration. Please tell all of us it is so. 'Hub

[BKFOURAB]

I will rephrase my question: Has losing your house and "things" influenced a divorce?

I found out about her plot to leave the relationship by inadvertently intercepting an email. Then I started going back, months back, in the emails she had been sending to her friends. (Told her friends of her woes, but never once told me. When I asked "What's wrong", I would get no response).
April 15 2010: "If things don't get better I'll be coming to live with you . . ."
June 2010: "As you all know,things have been tough for us. First Kevin lost his job, then I lost mine, then we filed bankruptcy, then we lost our house. Losing my job and house pushed into a deep depression that I had never experienced before in my life. Kevin says he never wants to own another house ( because of his declining health he's afraid he can no longer do the maintenance like he used to) but I want another house." Kevin is no longer able to work the hours like he used to so he thinks we can never afford another house". [I am in the process of obtaining 100% disability for health reasons].

My wife drives past "her house" all the time and takes notes on things like "they dug up our rose bushes" and "they changed the lighting on our garage" and "they werre repairing that crack in the driveway last week".
Grow up. Let go. stop living in the past. Two years have gone by!!! Turn the page already or you'll never read the book.

If things were "wrong", and I am all of a sudden a bad guy, then it is best to go. Let me add: In 23 years of marriage we raised our voices at each other twice. How many of you can say that? Since the foreclosure, yelling is a weekly event. Wanna guess what the yelling is about? For me, a house is just someplace to sleep - - even at age 55. I aply no attachments to "things". Marriage is not about things, it is about people. And once you raise the notion of divorce, I will grant you your wish. she knew that before we were married.

I don't want everyone to get lost in the details of my circumstances. No need to analyze or put me on the couch. I am simply wondering if the losses, attached to BK & Foreclosure, have negatively impacted your marriage. So far, your opinions are that it has not negatively impacted your marriage. It has absolutely negatively impacted mine. [BTW, our first BK had NO IMPACT on our marriage - - we were renters!]

[AngelinaCatHub]

Kevin, to answer your primary question first: Our bk brought Mrs. and I much closer together. We were more fortunate as prior to needing a bk, in our life planning we protected our house and it was paid for. Living in FL the house is protected under any circumstance except default of mortgage.

I would posit that there is a deeper rooted cause of her desire to divorce. I would not give it up yet, and request her and yourself to a marriage counselor. You would be surprised at their incite.

I have never heard of anyone needing a house that badly. It is a representative of something deeper. Perhaps security. At your implied ages, she is not just going to go out and get her a "new and improved' husband to be her "Prince Charming". At her age, there is baggage upon every possible future mate.

It is time for her to stick with it as you are her "only game in town" with the possibility of success. Hate to put it that way, but if she up and left you, went to live with a friend, she would need to get a job and believe me, sooner or later that friend will get tired of supporting her if she does not contribute. Also, two women in one house. Can I say more?

She has far more problems than that house. I doubt you don't already realize this. I feel badly for you and your situation.

It is time to think now of yourself, so hang in there my friend. It will run it's course in some way, and you will have to protect yourself first for the fall out to come. 'Hub

[tobee43]

I don't want everyone to get lost in the details of my circumstances. No need to analyze or put me on the couch. I am simply wondering if the losses, attached to BK & Foreclosure, have negatively impacted your marriage. So far, your opinions are that it has not negatively impacted your marriage. It has absolutely negatively impacted mine. [BTW, our first BK had NO IMPACT on our marriage - - we were renters!]

after 40 years for us it was a really hard time in our marriage...losing everything was not as important as trying to deal with the stress we were confronted with.

for the first time in our years together we argued daily...our kids were concerned...frankly so was i.

the problems one facing are just beyond losing possessions...for us i watched my mate going through (and for the FIRST TIME in 40 years) a severe depression after losing his job...unfortunately, and i do not mean this as a "blanket" statement...but men have more of a tendency to define who they are by what they do....when they lose what they did...they have many changes to deal with....i must admit i was not always exercising the patience i would have liked...between packing up a home after living there for 33 years...getting the taxes ready...gathering and collecting all the info for the bk filing...it was feeling lopsided to me...i thought how nice...i WISH i had time to even be depressed.

it was a really tough go of it...it tested the very depth of our souls and commitment to each other. some days we would not even speak.....(don't say a WORD HUB!!)...but those of you that know me a bit, know, i'm never usually at a lost for words...

as the fog began to slowly lift itself and the sun came peeking through...we began to "smile" again...it was finally over and now we are learning to move on. i can truly see many people NOT being able to make it through this. i'm NOT certain it was the strength of our love, that helped us...i just think it was our basic relationship foundation...it was strong and held us up while the world around us tumbled. for many, i'm sure, they don't make it.

BKFOUR...i wish you the very best for your future and hope things work out for you.

[BKFOURAB]

tobee43- I think You got it perfectly right.

[tobee43]

tobee43- I think You got it perfectly right.

BK... thank you, it just my view from what we experienced. i had just read my perspective to my husband...and actually, it felt good writing it out in words to see...even he appreciated the description of our plight and agrees....which happens rarely in this house!

[BKFOURAB]

angelina cathub might have some things right too. My fishing buddy is a sociologist (PhD), has known us for 20 of our 25 years. His thought is that the house is handily something to blame, and it is taking the hit for underlying fears and insecurities. My sisters say it is early menopause, "and if it is, run for your life" is their suggestion! No matter, I am processing the paperwork. I know me. I will never forget about it. My trust has been broken. You are not going to throw knives at me and remain my friend - man or woman.

No. No children. Ever. For either of us. (I was 30 when we got married. Thought I was smart by waiting!?

[tobee43]

angelina cathub might have some things right too. My fishing buddy is a sociologist (PhD), has known us for 20 of our 25 years. His thought is that the house is handily something to blame, and it is taking the hit for underlying fears and insecurities. My sisters say it is early menopause, "and if it is, run for your life" is their suggestion! No matter, I am processing the paperwork. I know me. I will never forget about it. My trust has been broken. You are not going to throw knives at me and remain my friend - man or woman.

No. No children. Ever. For either of us. (I was 30 when we got married. Thought I was smart by waiting!?

hub is a husband so although normally never bias, one of the rarer of his breed, he may see the situation through different eyes than those of a woman...after all we are different??

well, personally, and better said, more commonly a woman may find your statement in reference to menopause a bit abrasive, however, personally, i find it no excuse to explains ones bad behavior...(i'm going to drum up a TON of controversy on that statement! ), i personally am looking forward to personifying a ruder and more aggressive tone as i reach my golden years...(i have a few to go...however, just looking forward to it, and practicing it on certain days). i actually am looking forward to using my age to cut in line, push a person or two, etc....but not the menopause excuse..doesn't work for me.

[Flamingo]

angelina cathub might have some things right too. My fishing buddy is a sociologist (PhD), has known us for 20 of our 25 years. His thought is that the house is handily something to blame, and it is taking the hit for underlying fears and insecurities. My sisters say it is early menopause, "and if it is, run for your life" is their suggestion! No matter, I am processing the paperwork. I know me. I will never forget about it. My trust has been broken. You are not going to throw knives at me and remain my friend - man or woman.

No. No children. Ever. For either of us. (I was 30 when we got married. Thought I was smart by waiting!?

There were problems brewing long before any of what you stated in your initial posting; your financial issues and house loss just brought them all to a head. Sometimes those problems are right in one's face but the person is in a state of denial especially when it comes to a marriage and handling financial issues. It is apparent after rereading your initial posting and your specifically quoted question that something went wrong long before - it just took something to bring it all out and that is what happened. A good counselor can give you the proper guidance and information you need on what occurred to bring you both to this point but it certainly was not menopause and beleive me, you are both at fault so just don't blame your wife. Sometimes it's hard to take a look in the mirror. I suggest a good counselor with whicih to talk out your situation. Best of luck to you....

[tedbear]

I've been a long time lurker, but your situation is very sad. I agree that you are surprised and very upset about this, but as a very private person, I would feel invaded if my hubby were to intercept my emails in any way unless we had the habit of reading each others emails on a regular basis. That's what struck me immediately from your post. I've been with my Sweetie for 15 years and he doesn't even go into my purse without explicit permission from me. If he were to read my journals, that would be a massive invasion of my privacy and a potential relationship problem for me. I'm not trying to minimize the pain you're going through, but perhaps there may be a trust factor involved.

Just a thought to throw into the ring of emotions. I don't want to come out as judgmental at all. Perhaps I'm completely off base and if that is the case, I do apologize. All the best and I hope that you both work your way through this. It's a tragedy when, after that much time together, the relationship is lost. I hope to grow old together with my man and I would be heartbroken.

[sillywalks]

<<I found out about her plot to leave the relationship by inadvertently intercepting an email. Then I started going back, months back, in the emails she had been sending to her friends. (Told her friends of her woes, but never once told me. When I asked "What's wrong", I would get no response).

April 15 2010: "If things don't get better I'll be coming to live with you . . ."
June 2010: "As you all know,things have been tough for us. First Kevin lost his job, then I lost mine, then we filed bankruptcy, then we lost our house. Losing my job and house pushed into a deep depression that I had never experienced before in my life. Kevin says he never wants to own another house ( because of his declining health he's afraid he can no longer do the maintenance like he used to) but I want another house." Kevin is no longer able to work the hours like he used to so he thinks we can never afford another house". [I am in the process of obtaining 100% disability for health reasons].

My wife drives past "her house" all the time and takes notes on things like "they dug up our rose bushes" and "they changed the lighting on our garage" and "they werre repairing that crack in the driveway last week".
Grow up. Let go. stop living in the past. Two years have gone by!!! Turn the page already or you'll never read the book.

If things were "wrong", and I am all of a sudden a bad guy, then it is best to go. Let me add: In 23 years of marriage we raised our voices at each other twice. How many of you can say that? Since the foreclosure, yelling is a weekly event. Wanna guess what the yelling is about? For me, a house is just someplace to sleep - - even at age 55. I aply no attachments to "things". Marriage is not about things, it is about people. And once you raise the notion of divorce, I will grant you your wish. she knew that before we were married. >>

First, you are obviously hurting (and angry?) -- I wish this time were not so difficult. It seems like you are feeling surprised, betrayed, frustrated, and at a loss for what to do. All are understandable feelings, and I hope you have friends in your life who are able to support you during this painful time.

I remember as a teen deciding I was going to write whatever I wanted to write in my journal, knowing my mom would almost definitely look in it. For a long time I was careful what I wrote, until I decided that if she violated my privacy, she deserved what she read. Unfortunately, harsh as it is, the same is true for all of us. I don't know about men, but I think women tend at times to say things to their friends they would never say to anyone else because they are venting and want to be heard. What they say is emotionally true, but does not mean they intend to do what they say (does that make sense)? By reading your wife's emails, you 'heard' things she may not have ever intended to say to YOU because it is not how she feel when she is in a calm, stable state of mind.

Alternatively, maybe your wife needed to write those emails because of how you might have verbalized your position that a marriage is not about 'things' -- leading her to feel that HER need for the security and comfort of owning a home is not only WRONG (because you feel differently) but MORALLY WRONG (because 'good' people don't get attached to 'things'). Maybe you do not mean to, but it is easy (especially in times of stress when anyone would be understandably reaching for some sense of control) to come across as morally superior and 'right' -- thus leaving your spouse without her biggest support system and the feeling that you think something is 'wrong' with her feelings (and therefore her).

While I think you are right, and a home is about the people and 'things' are ultimately not important -- perhaps you need to consider that how your wife feels is pretty normal (especially for a woman) and (more importantly) SHE needs YOU to HEAR her feelings and accept them (and her) as okay. She does not need anyone to tell her to 'get over it' and 'move on' -- she will do those things, but she needs to be heard and allowed to grieve. She also needs you to understand that although you feel differently, her need for a home to call her own (as defined by 'owning' the home) is essential to her happiness and security. It is okay that you feel differently -- you will have to decide together if you are able to reach a place of understanding between your needs (maybe a small, affordable condo where you don't have to do maintenance) might both be satisfied. But shaming her or rejecting her heartfelt need as selfish or materialistic, or morally inferior to your own needs will only cause pain and distance in any relationship.

I would also suggest that after 23 years, your relationship deserves more than a knee-jerk reaction of "you mentioned divorce so I'll give you one". Perhaps a more helpful reaction would be "wow, after 23 years, what could be hurting her so much that she would mention divorce, and how can I help her?".

I mention the above, perhaps, because you mention it has been two years and she should accept things and move on. I hope that means you might be able to distance yourself somewhat from the stress of the bankruptcy and re-evaluate the situation based on how SHE feels (without judgement). Just because owning a home is not/no longer important to you does not mean it is not important to her, or that what YOU believe is "right" and what she believes is "wrong". Your wife needs to GRIEVE what she lost -- not just the house, but everything it meant to her in the past, present, and future. The life she imagined DIED, and the process is the same as if a loved one died. Let her grieve -- even better, let her know you LOVE her and that you understand her need to grieve.

I am taking off my counselor's hat now. I may have overstepped my bounds, but you did post...I hope maybe I have given you something to think about.



I don't want everyone to get lost in the details of my circumstances. No need to analyze or put me on the couch. I am simply wondering if the losses, attached to BK & Foreclosure, have negatively impacted your marriage. So far, your opinions are that it has not negatively impacted your marriage. It has absolutely negatively impacted mine. [BTW, our first BK had NO IMPACT on our marriage - - we were renters!][/QUOTE]

[nc73]

Nope. We are separating though for other reasons.