"OBEY" in wedding vows...

[tinroofrusted]

Congrats 13inOR, we are at 22.5. As an old man once said when asked "how did you stay together for sixty years"? "We long ago agreed that when she was angry she would just get it off her chest right away and that when i was angry I would just take a long walk, I owe our longevity to the fact that i have led a largely outdoor life".

The fact is love is a decision, not just a feeling, I can and have fallen in love dozens of times, beauty makes you do that. It doesn't mean you fool around, you just have to understand that humans are wired like that. The marriages fail largely because people are dependant on their "feelings". There are times when you won't feel like loving someone for a LONG time, but you do it any way. And then there are windows of time where everything will click and it's like the days you first met. Longevity counts, even imn 2006, period. How many people miss grandchildren, families because they stepped out when they didn't need to? I don't want to miss that nor give that example to my boys.

Good post. Jenny can go fly a kite.

And congrats to those who have made it so very long! I am impressed.

My parents faked a marriage for 22 years, and I must admit that when they finally split it was nothing more than a relief for everyone. It amazed me that two people who were obviously so incompatible would choose to marry.

However, my grandparents have been married for forever, and whatever they did, has worked.

We are now looking at "will abide by you and respect you," instead of "obey."

[Jenny]

*I'm* negative? You must have missed that thread on the death of the American dream, and the endless posts about home ownership being completely impossible.

Geez. Half of all marriages fail. That's a proven fact. Go ahead and shoot the messenger. Don't watch TV, read the paper, or open a magazine either.

[SinkingFast]

*I'm* negative? You must have missed that thread on the death of the American dream, and the endless posts about home ownership being completely impossible.

Geez. Half of all marriages fail. That's a proven fact. Go ahead and shoot the messenger. Don't watch TV, read the paper, or open a magazine either.

My brother got married 35+ years ago. Right now, he's sitting in the hospital along side the bed of his wife. She is really bad off. The doctors want to amputate her leg to save her life.

About 6 months after he got married, he came home one day to visit in the middle of the afternoon. I remember it clearly. It was so odd. He shoulda been at work.

Bro had a secret little chat with Mom in the bedroom. Then I heard Mom say, "What do you mean you want to get a divorce?? This isn't gonna work??!! Marriage doesn't just happen!! You have to work at it!! Until you've worked at it and given it your all, you cannot just call it quits."

That was 35 years ago. Now my Brother cannot imagine living without his wife. She's so sick and it's killing him.

Take your statistics, Jenny, and shove 'em where the light don't shine!

[anonymuse]

However, my grandparents have been married for forever, and whatever they did, has worked.

We are now looking at "will abide by you and respect you," instead of "obey."

I like that a lot!

My parents are nearing 50 years--it hasn't always been pretty and it definitely is not "perfect", but when you grow up where divorce is basically not even thought of as an option, you learn to work things out. And as you go through time together, you realize you can get through just about anything together.

I think it's too easy to get a divorce nowadays. I guess I don't recommend anyone getting married before 25 and waiting until 30 is probably better.

And this is just my opinion--coming from someone unmarried that was planning a wedding when we decided ahead of time that there were just some areas that we didn't agree on that couldn't be resolved.

[robivi3]

Our disagreements always involve Countries, hers Colombia, mine USA. Don't get me wrong, she is died in the wool America right or wrong. She loves george Washington and wishes that the Pres. Colombia handled the rebels the way he did the whiskey rebellion. She wants them dead, and everybody else free to farm, raise families and go to work without fear. It is my fault that when i run out of argument i just say, "well, we went to the moon", the rsponse being "you and your moon". I regard this as the ultimate justification for all my reasons i am right. The truth is she almost always right and the argument usually centers around my desire for a big ticket item or piece of land. Truthfully, she being the smarter, usually wins and it is generally for the best. I am all for revamping the vows. This ain't 200 AD, times have changed. The core of marriage has not, there should be vows with absolutes and they should be treated seriously, but I have a problem with the obedience part of it because i believe that is interpreted by some to make a woman a doormat.

[13inOR]

JENNY: The problem is not really what you said, but when and where you said it. Tin wasn't asking whether or not she should get married. She was asking about something entirely different. If a friend came up to you excited that she was pregnant, would you say "gee did you know half of all pregnancies end in miscarriage, and a lot of babies are born deformed???? No---even if its "true" that wouldnt be the least bit kind or positive to say to your friend at that time.
And unfortunately, the majority if not all, of your posts all sound like a big black cloud of negativity, not helpful, not encouraging, not friendly at all.
That is what we are all trying to say here. We are here to be friends and a support system and we take it really seriously.

As far as marriage goes, take note that some of us longtimers, (Sinking, Robivi,Jane Taylor, Myself and several others with long marriages) have not only stayed married, but HAVE DONE SO THROUGH MONEY PROBLEMS AND BANKRUPTCY. That should stand for something!!! My husband and I were only 18 and 20 when we were married 25 years ago but we came from families where divorce was nonexistent and we knew it was for life. Thats the difference right there.

[jane taylor]

Tin:

I'm not particularly crazy about the word "obey" either! From what I know about the Bible, the passage that is always quoted about women "submitting to their husbands" is taken out of context! If one reads further it says that husbands should love their wives as Christ loved the Church and gave His life for her. If a man is willing to do that for me, then I have no problem whatsoever submitting. It is a two-way street!

And I will be celebrating 18 years this year!! We've been through good times and rocky times, but we are TOGETHER!!

All the best,
jane

[anonymuse]

Mind if I ask, how much are you spending on the wedding? I hear that the average wedding runs about $25K--yikes! I refuse to pay more for a wedding than I would for a car.

My dad always tells me to elope and we'll have a heck of a party when I come back and a nice nest egg to start with.

Since my mom would probably kill me if I eloped, I'd want to have just our family and closest friends in a simple outdoor ceremony. And then go to a nice restaurant and 20-30 people would have a nice dinner together.

[AMISLANDER]

I can't even remember if...

obey was in our vows...? I'd have to watch the wedding video which I think I gave back to my xhusband....we only made it to just past 11 years but were together fourteen. He just got remarried two years ago to the girlfriend that had the baby with him that I decided not to deal with & I'm still with the boyfriend I met the day after that baby was born....

That person upstairs works in very strange ways...

I love my boyfriend to death but sometimes he drives me crazy & I hate him? But there's a lot more out in the open with him then there ever was with my xhusband....

I think if you don't like the word, get it out of the sentence!

[Jenny]

Tinroof came here asking about one aspect of the vows. I pointed out another. It's a fact. So, SF, stick it. If you don't like facts, dig yourself a hole and crawl into it. Hate me all you want. It doesn't change reality. No matter how big a font you use.

[anonymuse]

Can't we all play nice in this sandbox?

[jane taylor]

Tin,

If the word bothers you and it is an option, then I agree with Amislander--just take it out of the vows.

To be honest, I can't even remember whether that was in our vows or not. I just remember a wonderful day and my sweet husband being moved to tears during the ceremony. We have been through two rough pregnancies, seven surgeries for me, one for each kid and my husband is facing major, major surgery in a few weeks. Combine that with meddling in-laws, three job losses, and BK and it makes for loads of fun! Still, I wouldn't take anything for our 20 years together.

Jenny, I don't know your story, but it sounds as if you are really unhappy. I hope that you will find happiness, peace, and contentment. Many days that is a choice for me and has nothing to do with how achy I am from the fibromyalgia or how hot it is here (and it is wicked hot today--heat index of 115 degrees--UGH!!!)

Yep, we do need to play nice or go to Time-Out!!

[robivi3]

Take the word out, it's dated. If it's 1847 and indians are attacking the farm and your neighbor is six miles away then obey, otherwise take it out.

[DisneyGirl]

Tinroof came here asking about one aspect of the vows. I pointed out another. It's a fact. So, SF, stick it. If you don't like facts, dig yourself a hole and crawl into it. Hate me all you want. It doesn't change reality. No matter how big a font you use.

Here's the flip side and another fact - half of all marriages succeed!!!!

[anonymuse]

Here's the flip side and another fact - half of all marriages succeed!!!!

I like those people that see the glass as half full!!

And besides, that statistic is not really true:

In the United States, [2] in 2003 there were 7.5 new marriages per 1000 people and 3.8 divorces per 1000, a ratio which has existed for many individual years since the 1960s. As many statisticians have pointed out, virtually none of the marriages taking place in a given year are the same couples divorcing that year, so there is in fact no predictive relationship between the two annual totals. Nonetheless the claim that "half of all marriages end in divorce" became widely accepted in the US in the 1970s, on the basis of this statistic, and has remained conventional wisdom. Pollster Lewis Harris in his 1987 book "Inside America" wrote that "the idea that half of American marriages are doomed is one of the most specious pieces of statistical nonsense ever perpetuated in modern times."

To establish an actual divorce rate requires tracking and analyzing significant samples of actual marriages through decades, not an easy task. Recent US scholarship based on such longterm tracking, reported for example in the New York Times on April 19, 2005, has found that about 60 percent of all marriages that result in divorce do so in the first decade, and more than 80 percent do so within the first 20 years; that the percentage of all marriages that eventually end in divorce peaked in the United States at about 41 percent around 1980 and has been slowly declining ever since, standing by 2002 at around 31 percent; and that while in the 1960s and 1970s there was little difference among socioeconomic groups in divorce rates, diverging trends appeared starting around 1980 (e.g. the rate of divorce among college graduates had by 2002 dropped to near 20 percent, roughly half that of non-college graduates).

[3] "Number, Timing, and Duration of Marriages and Divorces: 2001", U.S. Census Bureau report released February 2005.

[4] [5] "Education and Marital Dissolution Rates in the U.S. since the 1970s" by Dr. Steven P. Martin, assistant professor of sociology at the University of Maryland, available online as a Powerpoint presentation or the full report.

http://www.family.org/cforum/fosi/marriage/divorce/a0037056.cfm

Therefore, Jenny, you're alleged "statement of fact" is not even factual at all.