Do People Ever Really Own Their Home Anymore?

[Lilyat108x]

Seems like they want to act like an HOA. So much for freedom inside and outside your home, garage etc. They want to control everything.

http://www.floridatoday.com/article/20140307/NEWS01/303070013/Brevard-bans-commercial-step-vans-from-home-parking

[justbroke]

Yes, you do own your home. There are even ordinances in any particular town, city, county that may impose conditions not too dissimilar to what an HOA's bylaws (covenants, conditions and restrictions).

As for parking, this has always been an issue even in major cities. In some major cities, you can't perk overnight on streets. Some HOAs have similar rules. Most HOAs have rules against commercial vehicles overnight in plane sight. Now, there are reasons why most HOAs just adopt other HOA rules on commercial vehicle parking. It was originally to prevent crime. There were MAJOR criminal rings that would use -- and still do today -- commercial vehicles to burglarize a home. The HOA that I live in now, does not have such a restriction in my particular sub-division, but others do ban both overnight parking and all commercial vehicles over 3 hours.

Unless you want to live in the boonies, Montana is really nice, you will be subject to some sort of restrictions in the form of HOA CC&Rs or town, city, and/or county ordinances.

So yes, you own your home. If you want to park commercial vehicles at a home, then it must be zoned for commercial use or mixed use. I know that I don't want to live next door, at least in my neighborhood, to large UPS step vans on the street. Besides, they are really too large for our traditional "18 feet curb to curb with on-street parking" streets where I live.

[bcohen]

I disagree with the above posting. If a person who works for a living cannot park their work truck in front of their home--or even in an enclosed garage, as the ordinance in Brevard County, FL prohibits--then they hardly "own" their home! At least in the city where I live, the local government has not seen fit to punish hardworking tradesmen with silly restrictions that they cannot even park their work truck--which is needed for their livelihood--in front of their house. There are some HOA's here which have these restrictions, but there are also some which will grant permission for people to park smaller commercial vehicles on their property, if necessary for their job.

What is interesting to me is that people who rent their home almost never seem to face these silly restrictions. Even the fanciest apartment complexes here, in the priciest neighborhoods have no problem with tenants parking their work truck on the property. If they did, then I'm sure they would quickly find themselves out of business for lack of suitable tenants. HOA's are able to impose silly restrictions because they know once you've bought the house, you are locked in. A tenant can always move as soon as the lease is over, and property management companies generally understand that fact and thus try to keep their tenants happy.

[Lilyat108x]

It would not bother me one bit if my neighbor had one of these trucks unless he was parking on my property. I grew up in Brevard County on 1 3/4 of an acre and I don't see the reason for this, even on a smaller lot. What about all the hard working entrepreneurs who own these vehicles? Where are they supposed to park? People aren't automatically burglars because they drive a big truck. In an HOA maybe because the houses are so cramped together. Here we have an issue with parking even with regular cars. Our neighbor on one side has 5-6 vehicles and sometimes parks in the street in front of our house and we don't mind because we park in our driveway and garage most of the time. Our other neighbor(renters) spits on your car if you park in street in front of "his" house. One time my disabled daughter had her car parked there and he spit on it and left a note telling her to park in her own yard. Then another time, my daughter's 17 year old friend parked there and that neighbor spit on his car and threatened to kick his @*%!

[nioka]

Home ownership is an illusion in an HOA. One surrenders their rights when submitting to an HOA and in many cases means doing the bidding of a few. If the board is strictly volunteer then what happens is people who want to control others seem to rise to the top. These people just love criticizing others and forcing others to do their will otherwise known as the covenants. I like to call these folks office Nazis.
Over the years we find a new business has emerged that provides a management service for HOAs. These management groups are usually people who could not find legitimate work elsewhere and were able to convince a few unsuspecting people the HOA would run better. Unlike the volunteers we now have paid managers who are intertwined with attorneys all trying to prove their worth at the expense of a homeowner who unknowingly parks one of his vehicles too close to the curb. When one of the homeowners complains, well, NO SOUP FOR YOU!
I think one of the most significant factors in HOAs is that fact that many of our legislators are heavily invested in them. The top lobbyist group is the financial sector followed by the real estate sector. These lobbyists have conspired with politicians to provide a power to the HOA equal to the any taxing agency and stripping the homeowner of any means of airing a complaint.
In the news, HOA residents fined for planting trees that were too small, parking too close to the curb, vehicles other than cars, grass and inch to tall, removing dead trees, flying an American flag, planting the wrong color flower, and the list goes on and on and on.

In an HOA the resident does not own the property. It is the reverse, the property owns them.

[tobee43]

bcohen, florida is indeed another animal all together with respect to the all powerful HOA lobbyists. their restrictions and covenants are some of the toughest in this country. this past july there were numerous changes by the legislators, (so many i haven't even completed reading them all and i have 6 of the for clients.) the 6 i deal with not a ONE allows any commercial trucks in front of them homes other than pick-ups. in one of the HOAs we have a "trucker" and what's the guy to do. we have a cul-de-sac in that HOA which has no homes on it, i suggested there MUST be an exception in the rule, as this is this families lively hood. another HOA is working on a out door storage area for those with campers and large equipment i suggested each wanting to use it pay the HOA $10 per item stored on the property per year, it's all fenced in with nothing on the property. so some are working with the people and other HOAs here in florida are simply the worse humans there could be running a ton of HOAs. i have a friend that does similar work for HOAs as i do, she's being sued now along with many of the officers. (i make them sign a agreement protecting me against that type or responsibility)

[justbroke]

It may come back to bite me one day, but everyone is looking at this HOA thing from the wrong viewpoint. The HOA was created to manage properties built by investors and developers. The HOA was always meant to be a quasi-governmental "agency" that provided covenants and restrictions to both builders and owners/residents of a "master planned community" (or planned unit development -- PUD).

When you take that viewpoint, you now understand that you moved into a municipality (town) that has its own laws (rules and restrictions). HOAs are not for anyone who does not like "restrictions" because the core of an HOA are restrictions. Those restrictions, in most cases, were to encourage the built out of that HOA by attracting investors and developers to build within the HOA. For buyers, the HOA provided consistency in architecture and a set of consonants and restrictions to govern those that lived within the HOA's boundary.

Other than that, there is no reason to blame an HOA. Just as any small town's government, they make mistakes, waste money, act "holier than thou", and can be difficult to deal with (administrivial, red-tape). You still have ownership of the property subject to the rules and restrictions just as you would in say, Brrevard County.

Now, to Brevard County... they are a State-chartered municipality pretending to be an HOA.

[GoingDown]

I disagree with the above posting. If a person who works for a living cannot park their work truck in front of their home--or even in an enclosed garage, as the ordinance in Brevard County, FL prohibits--then they hardly "own" their home! At least in the city where I live, the local government has not seen fit to punish hardworking tradesmen with silly restrictions that they cannot even park their work truck--which is needed for their livelihood--in front of their house. There are some HOA's here which have these restrictions, but there are also some which will grant permission for people to park smaller commercial vehicles on their property, if necessary for their job.

What is interesting to me is that people who rent their home almost never seem to face these silly restrictions. Even the fanciest apartment complexes here, in the priciest neighborhoods have no problem with tenants parking their work truck on the property. If they did, then I'm sure they would quickly find themselves out of business for lack of suitable tenants. HOA's are able to impose silly restrictions because they know once you've bought the house, you are locked in. A tenant can always move as soon as the lease is over, and property management companies generally understand that fact and thus try to keep their tenants happy.

That is one of the beauties of renting vs. owning a home. I have never owned a home, and I never intend to own one.

And if something goes wrong with the house, I complain to the landlord and it's his responsibility to fix it. And whenever I feel like it, once a lease has expired, I'm always free to move on to somewhere better at the drop of a hat.

Right now I found a rental home with northern exposure. My back porch faces north, and it is screened in. I put a full bed out there so I can sleep outside at night while the weather is still nice in the evenings. I put a table and chairs out there and I eat all my meals out there and even watch t.v. and listen to the radio out there. It's so nice! I just love it.

[spidge]

When one is shopping for a home the ordinances should be considered just as any other attraction for the home. HOA or not. I agree that it can seem a bit controlling, but even my less than desirable neighborhood has requirements set by the city. Things like storing trash cans behind a gate, not parking in the yard, maintaining the yard, and other items that help keep the area at least looking somewhat maintained.

[LadyInTheRed]

When one is shopping for a home the ordinances should be considered just as any other attraction for the home. HOA or not.

Exactly. You buy a home subject to ordinances or HOA regulations that may restrict what you can do on your property. That doesn't mean you don't own your home. It just means you are expected to live according to the standards established by the community where you chose to buy a house. If you think the rules are unreasonable, get involved in the community and try to change them.

[sbatman]

Well, if you buy a house in a fairly poor neighborhood-here in Tucson, it's a Barrio. We have lots of security and don't go out nights much at our age, so we actually feel more secure than when we lived in much more expensive neighborhoods. Nobody cares and nobody really knows what you're doing on your property as long as you're not dealing drugs out of it. Our house was "homemade", not a plumb wall or floor in the place. There are so many pre-existing not up to code buildings here, there can be no enforcement except for egregious violations that irritate the neighbors enough to report it.

Since the house was so cheap ($75K), we were able to buy it with cash from retirement accounts which were earning less than nothing (being charged to lose money-really chafed me) and now own it free and clear. So we only pay property taxes ($100/month) and homeowners insurance (less than $100/month, plus utilities. Those are fairly low-house is only 1250 square feet for power and desert landscape watered pretty much with all grey water, so not much water. After the power bill, our highest expense is the Internet.

The house is cute and well maintained by hubby and mostly all of the other houses in our little corner of this Barrio are the same. Backyards are different, but no matter as they can't be seen except by Google Earth or Zillow, because we all have 6 foot (or more) fences or walls for security and the ubiquitous dogs, which add to the security. Also, everyone has locked gates, so noone can even get to the front door, which is wonderful.

Being from Florida and now for the last 20 years, Arizona, Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

[justbroke]

Being from Florida and now for the last 20 years, Arizona, Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

You forgot one category of HOA homeowner. The well informed investor that has purchased in an HOA for investment reasons and wants to protect their investment through enforceable deed restrictions. You may have forgotten another type of HOA homeowner. Those are the parents of school-aged children which don't mind the extra cost of living in an HOA so they don't need to live behind 6ft fences and walls dividing properties.

I understand your concerns, but there are a lot of people who would rather pay and be subjected to deed restrictions, than those who would rather be more free to do whatever they want with their property. Just as their are survivalists that would rather live in the woods in a shack, while stockpiling supplies, there are those that would like the comforts of conformity.

Reminds me of my class valedictorian speech on conformist non-conformists. I digress.

We are half ruined by conformity; but we should be wholly ruined without it. - Charles Dudley Warner

[bcohen]

...Hubby and I think only idiots or the naive buy a home with an HOA.

FINALLY, someone who gets it!

[Lilyat108x]

But even investors are having a hard time in HOA's as the HOA's are allowing less and less rentals in the neighborhoods. If the investor plans on selling right away it doesn't matter but those that want to rent out houses are in trouble.

[Lilyat108x]

I get it too. It's bad enough we have to pay the city/county taxes and never really owning your property. I don't need an HOA. They need me. There is nothing an HOA can do that the city or county can't (except pool areas, condo's and such). I don't think I will ever consider buying in an HOA again. There is one HOA I would consider here in Florida where the houses and yards aren't cookie cutter and were by design to fit into as natural setting as possible. Most people do maintain their yards for the most part.