Job application

[rdmusc]

I was filling out an online job app when I came to the question - 'why did you leave your last employer' which one of the selections I could make was 'fired' which is what happened. Then the followup question is asking 'why'. I do not believe in lying about anything but what is my obligation here to be forthcoming? Just an FYI, I was fired unjustifiably, in my opinion, but the reality was, I was fired. What was reported by my employer to the state work force commission, for unemployment benefits, was that I was fired for 'unprofessional behavior' which is very subjective. I did not break any specific work place policies. The process which led up to my dismissal was when I started making noises, department internal only, about unsafe practices for both staff and patients. I work in health care. A separate question begs to be asked. Do I have a case for wrongful termination? Would I have whistle blower status?

[drowning123]

It's illegal for prospective employers to call former employers to ask about prior job performance. The most that can be discussed is to verify that you worked at the former employer's place of business. I would say that I was "laid off" even if the only option is fired. That's mostly what is going on in this horrible economy.

[Flamingo]

As to the last part of your question above, only a Labor Law attorney would be able to answer your question about if you have any recourse against your former employer. It all depends on what happened, your side of the story, their side of the story, documentation, documents you signed, etc., etc. The best thing to do is make an appointment with a Labor law attorney and take all your documentation from your previous job situation with you for them to review.

As to your other question as to filling out an application, it is always best to be as honest as possible about a situation because if you are in the running for a position and they check your references and also your former employer, and find out you lied on your application, you can bet you won't be considered for the position. You can even be fired if they find out afterward that you lied about something on your application (i.e., school records, degrees, etc.). Read the fine print in the paragraph on any job application above where you sign as to what you are attesting to and what you allow them to do when you sign.

[HRx]

You need to understand what the employment laws of your state say, laws vary from state to state. Additionally, in many cases lying about information on an application is sufficient grounds for termination if discovered after the fact. Most employers will only confirm dates of employment, title and possibly wage information when contacted. You should've requested a written termination agreement from your former employer, that clearly indicates what they will say when contacted (preferably that you resigned) Most often an employer will also provide a positive letter of recommendation along with an agreement as well. You could probably still get these documents/agreements from your former employer with or without an attorney.

Many employers don't even contact an applicant's former employer, and only want three professional references to vet their applicants, along with background checks, physicals, education, when applicable. However, there are employers out there that will contact three or more of an applicants employers as a way of thoroughly vetting their applicants----this is very common amongst hospitals. Many times a potential employer will ask if the employee is eligible for rehire as a way of determining if he/she left of good terms or not.

Contacting a labor attorney to determine if you have a solid case for litigation really depends how far you want to go with all this. But realize it's going to be costly and very time consuming before/if you see any results.

[kornellred]

"Fired" is a colloquialism that Donald Trump has managed to popularize. The implications of being "fired" are incompetence and lack of being able to integrate successfully into a work group. You needed to be removed from the situation with great haste. When you "fire" a gun, the bullet proceeds with enormous velocity. Clearly, the boss did not want you around.
If, in fact, you lost your employment through no fault of your own (in your opinion), there should be a way to express that opinion in a resume (can't put the diacritical mark above the "e"). Just make sure that you are being rigorously honest when you state that you were terminated through no fault of your own.

Let your prospective employer talk to your former employer. Demand it, even. Labor attorneys cannot help you get another job. They might be able to get your former job back, but the implications of that scenario are frightening, to say the least.

[bcohen]

Generally speaking, despite everyone's advice to the contrary, you do not have a whole lot of incentive to honestly disclose negative information about yourself on a job application. This includes things like having been fired for cause from a job, having a criminal record or arrest history, or having filed for bankruptcy.

Why's that? If a particular employer views these thing(s) as a problem, and you tell the truth, you definitely won't be hired. On the other hand, if you lie on the application, you may be hired, and the negative information won't come up during the background/reference check, so you get to keep the job. Worst case, the company finds out later, and they fire you. They still have to pay you for the time you worked, so you're actually better off than you would have been if you told the truth and didn't get hired to begin with!

[LadyInTheRed]

If, in fact, you lost your employment through no fault of your own (in your opinion), there should be a way to express that opinion in a resume (can't put the diacritical mark above the "e"). Just make sure that you are being rigorously honest when you state that you were terminated through no fault of your own.

Actually, there is no reason to say anything on a resume about termination, regardless of the reason. It only becomes an issue when you are filling out an application that specifically asks why you left a job. On a resume, you include only the info you want in order to present yourself in the best possible light. Filling out an application is a more difficult situation. You have to decide whether to answer a question honestly, lie or just skip the question all together.

Generally speaking, despite everyone's advice to the contrary, you do not have a whole lot of incentive to honestly disclose negative information about yourself on a job application. This includes things like having been fired for cause from a job, having a criminal record or arrest history, or having filed for bankruptcy.

Why's that? If a particular employer views these thing(s) as a problem, and you tell the truth, you definitely won't be hired. On the other hand, if you lie on the application, you may be hired, and the negative information won't come up during the background/reference check, so you get to keep the job. Worst case, the company finds out later, and they fire you. They still have to pay you for the time you worked, so you're actually better off than you would have been if you told the truth and didn't get hired to begin with!

But, what if the prospective employer doesn't think the mere existences of those things is a problem, but views lack of honesty as a huge problem? What if the employer just wants the opportunity to discuss these issues with you during an interview so they can consider your explanation when making their hiring decision? If you check no to a question on an application and they find out through a background check or conversation with a former employer that you lied, the lie may disqualify you from consideration even if what you lied about wouldn't.

ETA: I remember being in a job interview and saying something that I regretted as soon as it left my mouth. I don't remember anymore what I said. The guy looked at me funny for a moment, then smiled and said "well, at least you're honest." I got the job.

[LadyInTheRed]

It's illegal for prospective employers to call former employers to ask about prior job performance. The most that can be discussed is to verify that you worked at the former employer's place of business. I would say that I was "laid off" even if the only option is fired. That's mostly what is going on in this horrible economy.

I think you are confusing what is often the policy of companies with the law. Companies often have policies about what information they will give about former employees. For example they will only confirm dates of employment, salary and whether the former employee is eligible for rehire. They set these polices to avoid defamation claims. It's hard to control what an individual in the company will say when contacted for a reference, so they set very strict policies on exactly what they can say and no more. I really doubt it is illegal for a perspective employer to call a former employer to ask anything, but there is some information they can't use in making a hiring decision: age, race, religion, etc. Generally, a former employer can say anything that is true and count of the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution for protection. But, there are privacy and blacklisting laws that need to be complied with.

As already said, anybody with concerns about what a former employer has said or done, should consult a labor attorney. But, if you are in the job market, don't count on there being any law to prevent a former employer from telling the truth when asked.

[Bell30656]

Each state is different. Some states only allow a former employer to give out certain pieces of information. Other states will let a former employer say anything they wish. When I'm interviewing and I encounter the former employer that won't give a positive reference it throws up a red flag to me causing us to do further checking.

[ksgirl38]

Generally speaking, despite everyone's advice to the contrary, you do not have a whole lot of incentive to honestly disclose negative information about yourself on a job application. This includes things like having been fired for cause from a job, having a criminal record or arrest history, or having filed for bankruptcy.

Why's that? If a particular employer views these thing(s) as a problem, and you tell the truth, you definitely won't be hired. On the other hand, if you lie on the application, you may be hired, and the negative information won't come up during the background/reference check, so you get to keep the job. Worst case, the company finds out later, and they fire you. They still have to pay you for the time you worked, so you're actually better off than you would have been if you told the truth and didn't get hired to begin with!

I have to agree with this. I'm not saying lying is right, but if you are in a position where you really need the job and feel that it's a small company that might not check this out then I think I'd find a creative way to answer it. Sometimes saying "not a good fit" or "didn't fit my long term goals" might be a better answer than "fired." If more than one person was let go at the same time then that opens up "downsizing." Just saying. I completely understand where you are coming from and it's hard to truthfully answer this when you know that it could cost you the job. Sometimes answering honestly hurts you more. Guess it just comes down to how badly you need the job.

[HRx]

Generally speaking, despite everyone's advice to the contrary, you do not have a whole lot of incentive to honestly disclose negative information about yourself on a job application. This includes things like having been fired for cause from a job, having a criminal record or arrest history, or having filed for bankruptcy.

Why's that? If a particular employer views these thing(s) as a problem, and you tell the truth, you definitely won't be hired. On the other hand, if you lie on the application, you may be hired, and the negative information won't come up during the background/reference check, so you get to keep the job. Worst case, the company finds out later, and they fire you. They still have to pay you for the time you worked, so you're actually better off than you would have been if you told the truth and didn't get hired to begin with!

Take the quoted advice with a lot of caution! Keep in mind that if an employer determines that an applicant/employee intentionally withheld information such as being terminated, having a criminal record, inaccurate employment dates and/or lying about education, etc. Is sufficient enough grounds for terminating an employee, and happens all the time. Most employers strive to thoroughly vet an applicant before the first 90 days of employment, which can affect whether or not you even qualify for unemployment insurance as well. Hence, matters may not unfold towards an applicant's advantage.

[bcohen]

Take the quoted advice with a lot of caution! Keep in mind that if an employer determines that an applicant/employee intentionally withheld information such as being terminated, having a criminal record, inaccurate employment dates and/or lying about education, etc. Is sufficient enough grounds for terminating an employee, and happens all the time. Most employers strive to thoroughly vet an applicant before the first 90 days of employment, which can affect whether or not you even qualify for unemployment insurance as well. Hence, matters may not unfold towards an applicant's advantage.

Well, in most states--and certainly here in Arizona--a company can fire any person at any time, for any reason (or no reason). So the fact that lying on the application might result in being fired later on down the line is academic at best. Even assuming that it does happen, so what? You will have gotten a couple weeks of pay that you otherwise wouldn't have gotten, and you would not have been able to get unemployment after so little time on the job anyways.

BTW, I myself have taken this advice, and it worked out to my advantage. I never put that I was fired from a job on an application, and believe me, I have been fired from my share of jobs. If the job lasted for 2 months or less, I simply delete it; otherwise, I say I was laid off or quit.

[LadyInTheRed]

Each state is different. Some states only allow a former employer to give out certain pieces of information. Other states will let a former employer say anything they wish. When I'm interviewing and I encounter the former employer that won't give a positive reference it throws up a red flag to me causing us to do further checking.

Can you cite one state law that prohibits a former employer from truthfully and in good faith revealing to a prospective employer a past employee's job performance and reason for termination?

I tried to find one and can't. I do find many comments that there is a common misconception that there are such laws. I also found articles discussing the problem of employers being afraid to give negative information for fear of defamation suits and the trend of states passing laws to protect employers who give true negative information so that employers do not have to have such strict policies on the kind of information that can be disclosed. I know that there are state laws that give employers immunity for giving certain kinds of information and listing the kinds of information they can give without fearing liability to the employee as long as the information is true and not provided with malice. But, none prohibiting an employer from providing accurate information on the performance of a past employee. I didn't check every state's laws, so I am not saying there absolutely is not such a law. But, if you say there is, please cite the law.