Car buying/financing question

[Diesel73L]

We are going to look at a new (pre-owned) car for my wife tonight at a local dealership because we need to get her into a newer more reliable car with a good warranty before we file. I figure this is the best way of guarding against any expensive car disasters post BK when credit is hard/expensive to get. We're going with a Kia because of the warranty coverage. I have already stopped paying on my cards so I am not a part of this equation. My wife has one maxed out card and one with maybe $1000 of available credit on it but she has never been late with a payment in her life. Total balance comes to around $20K. She has a fair amount of student loan debt-not sure how that factors in. She also has a steady job (for now) making $57K a year. I'm hoping to get the purchase price of the vehicle down to about $18K and using my truck as a trade plus about $2000 cash. The end goal would be to finance about $12-13K at no more than 6% for 6 years. Do we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting financing or should we come up with a different plan?

[keepsmiling]

You may be just fine. Good luck, keep us posted.

[mountanddo]

You may be just fine. Good luck, keep us posted.

Now that's a non committed answer!

[keepsmiling]

Now that's a non committed answer!

Sorry, that's all I have. I'm very committed to the "good luck" part.
Actually I think they will be fine because her credit's not trashed yet.

[shark66]

. I'm hoping to get the purchase price of the vehicle down to about $18K and using my truck as a trade plus about $2000 cash.

How much is your truck worth? Why not just get a cheaper vehicle by trading in the truck combined with the cash-on-hand?

The end goal would be to finance about $12-13K at no more than 6% for 6 years. Do we have a snowballs chance in hell of getting financing or should we come up with a different plan?

Given the set of circumstances that you've described, I doubt it.

Another thing to consider is that at the end of the game you'll be left with a Kia which will be downright worthless...had you said Toyota or Honda, I'd say go for it...

Good luck to us all.

[aaengel]

I dunno about you, but KIA would not be my first pick... the new Optima's I believe have quite a few problems... I would really look into it.

As for others, Ford is having a lot of problems with the new DSM Automatic Transmissions (the Auto-Manual shifts)... they're in the new Focus and Fiesta... nothing but problems on both sides of the Atlantic...

I haven't heard much wrong with the Cruze yet, but I'm iffy with GM after their bankruptcy and how their CEO lied on that one commercial a while back... but out of them all, I'd be most happiest with the Cruze.... if you went with a Ford Fusion or Focus, make sure it's a manual transmission or you'll regret it...

Volkswagen is having major issues with their DSM transmissions as well... thus go with a manual if you got a Jetta or something... also VW gasoline engines are quite notorious for failing... you gotta make sure you keep up on your oil changes and use synthetic, otherwise the oil sludges up and fries their engines...

But again, please heed my warning on the KIA's... they're still highly problematic... especially with the electrical system... look it up...

[Diesel73L]

How much is your truck worth? Why not just get a cheaper vehicle by trading in the truck combined with the cash-on-hand?

I think I phrased that wrong-what I meant was get them to agree to $18K (vehicle is currently listed at $20K) and THEN apply the cash and trade. I'm thinking I'll get about $6K for the truck based on market value, I owe the bank about $900, so assuming that all goes through plus the $2K cash we would be looking at financing about $11K.

We'll see-we ended up walking out of the dealer last night (you should have seen the looks on their faces ) because they wouldn't budge on the price. They likely paid between $15-16K on trade in for this vehicle, did the minimum amount to certify it, and put it right back out there. It even has the original tires on it. Then they got all huffy with me when I told them that they should take $2000 profit on the vehicle, $3000 on the financing and be happy with it. Then they told us we could have it for $310 a month! At that point we got up and walked-they did the old stop-us-in-the-parking-lot-routine where they asked me to send pictures of my truck so they could look it over to see if they could give me more for it, etc... (I deliberately did not bring it with me) and all that nonsense.

Another thing to consider is that at the end of the game you'll be left with a Kia which will be downright worthless...had you said Toyota or Honda, I'd say go for it...

Not that I want to get into a brand war, but we're not really buying the car here. We're buying a guarantee that if something goes wrong with the car within 10 years that we won't have to pay a dime to fix it. When the warranty expires it will have been paid off for 4 years. I'll put it on Craigslist for whatever the market will bear and be done with it. This is the only time in my life I've ever set foot into a dealership and I'm determined it will be the last. Car buying has become a ridiculous gimmicky circus with pushy salespeople who don't have a clue what they're selling (I poured over Edmunds, Wikipedia, Kia's own sites, discussed the vehicle on Kia forums with certified techs etc...before settling on it)-the salesguy eventually got annoyed with me after I corrected him for the 5th or 6th time because he was giving wrong information he just came up with off the top of his head. By the time we're ready to purchase a car again it will be from a private individual financed through a credit union. This is nonsense...

But again, please heed my warning on the KIA's... they're still highly problematic... especially with the electrical system... look it up...

You're absolutely right-pre 2006 Kias had many electrical problems. Starting with the 2007 model year those problems were addressed and corrected and Kia electrical problems are a thing of the past. Besides, that's what the warranty is for. Anyway, back to the issue at hand-would it be worth pulling her credit report or would that ding her score even further?

[DYLAN150]

My son has a 2008 Kia which he loves. Never a problem with it.

[aaengel]

I think I phrased that wrong-what I meant was get them to agree to $18K (vehicle is currently listed at $20K) and THEN apply the cash and trade. I'm thinking I'll get about $6K for the truck based on market value, I owe the bank about $900, so assuming that all goes through plus the $2K cash we would be looking at financing about $11K.

We'll see-we ended up walking out of the dealer last night (you should have seen the looks on their faces ) because they wouldn't budge on the price. They likely paid between $15-16K on trade in for this vehicle, did the minimum amount to certify it, and put it right back out there. It even has the original tires on it. Then they got all huffy with me when I told them that they should take $2000 profit on the vehicle, $3000 on the financing and be happy with it. Then they told us we could have it for $310 a month! At that point we got up and walked-they did the old stop-us-in-the-parking-lot-routine where they asked me to send pictures of my truck so they could look it over to see if they could give me more for it, etc... (I deliberately did not bring it with me) and all that nonsense.



Not that I want to get into a brand war, but we're not really buying the car here. We're buying a guarantee that if something goes wrong with the car within 10 years that we won't have to pay a dime to fix it. When the warranty expires it will have been paid off for 4 years. I'll put it on Craigslist for whatever the market will bear and be done with it. This is the only time in my life I've ever set foot into a dealership and I'm determined it will be the last. Car buying has become a ridiculous gimmicky circus with pushy salespeople who don't have a clue what they're selling (I poured over Edmunds, Wikipedia, Kia's own sites, discussed the vehicle on Kia forums with certified techs etc...before settling on it)-the salesguy eventually got annoyed with me after I corrected him for the 5th or 6th time because he was giving wrong information he just came up with off the top of his head. By the time we're ready to purchase a car again it will be from a private individual financed through a credit union. This is nonsense...



You're absolutely right-pre 2006 Kias had many electrical problems. Starting with the 2007 model year those problems were addressed and corrected and Kia electrical problems are a thing of the past. Besides, that's what the warranty is for. Anyway, back to the issue at hand-would it be worth pulling her credit report or would that ding her score even further?

I guess it's your death wish.... I'm telling you straight up these cars are still highly problematic... maybe not with electrical issues, but please at least pour over this website...

www (dot) consumeraffairs.com/automotive/kia.htm

I think you'll be taken, despite a 10 year warranty... the car will likely need to be in for major, major service multiple times before the warranty is over....

[jacko]

Another perspective from a car salesman..

I have taken the time to carefully read and then reread this article. Upon fully digesting the information provided, I was at first at a loss for words, then appalled, and now somewhat understanding of the author's point of view. I have been in the car business for a whopping two months now, and am currently waiting for the "up" bus as I write this. From a consumer's perspective, I understand the fear of not wanting to be ripped off and I have heard stories of dealerships that start negotiations at about five grand above sticker. That being said, what I don't understand is where people get this sense of entitlement that makes them feel like they deserve to get cars at prices up to $500 below invoice. I have yet in my short tenure at my dealership been the one to apply a window sticker onto one of our vehicles. If I assume correctly, it is referred to as MSRP because the MANUFACTURER has reccomended that price and has placed the sticker on the window prior to shipping the vehicle. I am a salesman everyday the same way that I am a consumer everyday. I don't negotiate the price of my cable bill as astronomical as it is, I express my disgust to public service for the cost of my energy bills to no avail, I don't haggle for a better price on my groceries, nor do I make a scene at red lobster over what I feel is fair market value for my lobster. When consumers negotiate themselves what this writer from edmunds calls a good deal, the only person that they hurt is their sales representative. The average "flat" for a new car in the state of New Jersey is $50. You meet and greet the customer, sit them down for a consultation to analyze their needs, land them on a vehicle, provide them with a spectacular demonstration, take them on a test drive, and then engage in negotiations that may last up to two hours, be hospitable towards them while your sales manager brutalizes you the whole way through, and entertain them while you wait for F&I. When it's all said and done, you have anywhere from 3 to 6 hours invested in every deal. When you tax those $50, you wound up making between $5 to $10 an hour per deal on top of your monstrous $125 per week salary. Ultimately, when I deal with a customer, I want them to leave happy and feel they got a good deal, but at the same token when I go home to my family, I don't want to feel ashamed at the fact that we have to have bologne sandwiches for dinner, again. The last time I went to the ER, I was there for 3 hours and incurred a $2200 bill. My labor lawyer that is handling a claim for me gets $750 per hour or 33 and 1/3 percent of my entire settlement. No one ever dares to question or negotiate these expenses. I guess all I really want to know is why it is determined that the guys in the car business can suffer and it is not a problem. If anyone has answers please let me know. Just a pitiful fool at the end of his rope, Ivan Casiano

[QUOTE=Diesel73L;559405]I think I phrased that wrong-what I meant was get them to agree to $18K (vehicle is currently listed at $20K) and THEN apply the cash and trade. I'm thinking I'll get about $6K for the truck based on market value, I owe the bank about $900, so assuming that all goes through plus the $2K cash we would be looking at financing about $11K.

We'll see-we ended up walking out of the dealer last night (you should have seen the looks on their faces ) because they wouldn't budge on the price. They likely paid between $15-16K on trade in for this vehicle, did the minimum amount to certify it, and put it right back out there. It even has the original tires on it. Then they got all huffy with me when I told them that they should take $2000 profit on the vehicle, $3000 on the financing and be happy with it. Then they told us we could have it for $310 a month! At that point we got up and walked-they did the old stop-us-in-the-parking-lot-routine where they asked me to send pictures of my truck so they could look it over to see if they could give me more for it, etc... (I deliberately did not bring it with me) and all that nonsense.

[keepsmiling]

Respectfully disagree.
You'd be surprised at what folks negotiate. Dh is an atty and he is asked to negotiate his fees regularly. I call the cable company every few months and ask for a lower rate or else I think about switching to a different company. People use coupons at restaurants. There are subsidies for energy companies if you qualify and I regularly get fliers from utility companies including phone, garbage and electric, offering me better deals.

[shark66]

Agreed with keepsmiling.

I also negotiated the cost of my family's health care during the period of time when we were left uninsured. Cash was king...

There was a time - and not that long ago - when no one would even contemplate paying the MSRP for *anything* and those were indeed the good old days. MSRP was $10K, dealer cost was $6K and you could show $7K in cash and drive away...

When everyone-and-their-seventh-cousin-five-times-removed decided that it was easier to make profit on financing than on actually selling the goods the old-fashioned way, that was when fit hit the shan. I've seen this happen in another line of business 16-17 years ago and was absolutely stunned, as well as disgusted. Good God, we *all* haggled back then. Every hour of every day. Then the financing nonsense took that aspect - along with our profits - away. Smaller companies started being blacklisted by manufacturers and/or wholesalers if they were unwilling to play by the new set of rules...And that was just the beginning of the overall debacle that was to come...

Good luck to us all.

[Diesel73L]

I have taken the time to carefully read and then reread this article. Upon fully digesting the information provided, I was at first at a loss for words, then appalled, and now somewhat understanding of the author's point of view. I have been in the car business for a whopping two months now, and am currently waiting for the "up" bus as I write this. From a consumer's perspective, I understand the fear of not wanting to be ripped off and I have heard stories of dealerships that start negotiations at about five grand above sticker. That being said, what I don't understand is where people get this sense of entitlement that makes them feel like they deserve to get cars at prices up to $500 below invoice.

First of all, this was not a new vehicle. This was a used vehicle that the dealer was attempting to make a $4000+ profit on just with the sale-not counting the money they were going to make on the financing. The so-called "invoice price" is a bunch of made up mumbo jumbo anyway-there's plenty of folks who have "defected" from the car industry who will attest to this.

I have yet in my short tenure at my dealership been the one to apply a window sticker onto one of our vehicles. If I assume correctly, it is referred to as MSRP because the MANUFACTURER has reccomended that price and has placed the sticker on the window prior to shipping the vehicle. I am a salesman everyday the same way that I am a consumer everyday. I don't negotiate the price of my cable bill as astronomical as it is

I dropped cable, bought an antenna, and use my Windows Media Center as a DVR.

I express my disgust to public service for the cost of my energy bills to no avail

I heat my house with wood and I am known as the "light Nazi."

I don't haggle for a better price on my groceries

I use coupons.

nor do I make a scene at red lobster over what I feel is fair market value for my lobster

We rarely go out to eat.

You meet and greet the customer, sit them down for a consultation to analyze their needs, land them on a vehicle, provide them with a spectacular demonstration, take them on a test drive, and then engage in negotiations that may last up to two hours, be hospitable towards them while your sales manager brutalizes you the whole way through, and entertain them while you wait for F&I. When it's all said and done, you have anywhere from 3 to 6 hours invested in every deal. When you tax those $50, you wound up making between $5 to $10 an hour per deal on top of your monstrous $125 per week salary.

See this is the other thing I don't understand-just what is the purpose of a car salesman, no offense? I should be able to buy a car like I buy toilet paper. I walk down the isle in supermarket, find which one is cheapest, put it in my cart, and leave. I don't need someone on commission from the store to help me pick it out.

Ultimately, when I deal with a customer, I want them to leave happy and feel they got a good deal, but at the same token when I go home to my family, I don't want to feel ashamed at the fact that we have to have bologne sandwiches for dinner, again. The last time I went to the ER, I was there for 3 hours and incurred a $2200 bill. My labor lawyer that is handling a claim for me gets $750 per hour or 33 and 1/3 percent of my entire settlement. No one ever dares to question or negotiate these expenses. I guess all I really want to know is why it is determined that the guys in the car business can suffer and it is not a problem. If anyone has answers please let me know. Just a pitiful fool at the end of his rope

If a car salesman is suffering right now, its because of the economy, not because of decent people who don't want to contribute their hard earned money to the overinflated profits of the car industry. Obviously you're here because you've gone through or are going through BK, just like me. I can't fault you for making a living, but you have to admit that you joined an industry that is a big part of the problem of personal debt in America. Car dealers, financing companies, and car manufacturers have all colluded with each other to convince people that a relatively cheap commodity (the millions upon millions of rolling hunks of metal churned out in factories all over the world day after day) is worth thousands or even tens of thousands more than it really is. As if that wasn't enough, they then convince people that they need ever more and better "options" when all they really need is four wheels. Then when someone like me comes along who sees a car for what it is-basic transportation, the car industry is "appalled" because I don't care to play their game. Now seriously, anybody have an idea on the financing?

[keepsmiling]

^like^

[SMinGA2]

Just wondering how this is working out?

My initial thought, reading the original post, was if the trade-in truck is in Diesel's name - it might not be possible to trade it in and have the new(er) vehicle in Mrs. Diesel's name?