The Romney Con

[msm859]

Sorry old chap, cannot agree here - Clinton left office with an economy in good shape - except for the tech bubble which the Fed Reserve (and he) encouraged - budget was in great shape, etc. In comes Bush - massive tax cuts for the wealthy, two wars on the national credit card, and ultra low interest rates to compensate for the hemorrhaging of jobs and the falling average income of folks...wars cannot be fought without taxes. However, let us think what would have happened if on our paychecks there would have been a line item surtax for the wars...

Hit the nail on the head. All we have to do to prevent further unnecessary wars and military intervention is to have a progressive surtax starting at 1% on income above $100k and going up 1% per $100k until we are at 10% on a million anytime we are in "war" -- troops involved in a conflict for more than 30 days. Just imagine were we would be today if that little provision had been in place the last 10 years.

[Meatstick]

How about massive spending cuts actually be thought out and implemented before any talk of a tax increase of any kind takes place. You simply cannot continue to spend like drunken sailors (both parties) and then just come back and raise taxes. That is a great part of what has gotten us all in this mess we are in.

The federal government is a complete disaster and there are way too many departments and programs that could be cut right now. Yes, I realize in doing so there will be many who lose their jobs but we as a country are more or less bankrupt. Nobody wants to do the dirty work because they are more concerned with getting re-elected.

[shark66]

Sorry old chap, cannot agree here - Clinton left office with an economy in good shape - except for the tech bubble which the Fed Reserve (and he) encouraged - budget was in great shape, etc. In comes Bush - massive tax cuts for the wealthy, two wars on the national credit card, and ultra low interest rates to compensate for the hemorrhaging of jobs and the falling average income of folks...wars cannot be fought without taxes. However, let us think what would have happened if on our paychecks there would have been a line item surtax for the wars...

While I'm NO fan of Bush's presidency, let's not forget the following:

a) It was the Clinton/Gingrich tandem that made it possible for industries to start shifting the jobs abroad in quantities that were previously unimaginable. Take it from someone who was laid-off from a Fortune 10 company in early 2000, along with thousands of others, when our jobs were shipped out to China. Shapes of things to come, and then some....

b) It was Clinton who turned a blind eye to Al-Qaeda, effectively allowing them to stage 9/11 the way they had. Bush's reaction to that event...well, that's a whole another matter...

c) Had Clinton gotten his way there would've been U.S. ground troops fighting in the Balkans...long before Afghanistan and Iraq...but someone thankfully managed to talk some sense into him...

So while things may have looked good when Clinton was leaving the office, the disasters were around the corner...nicely lined up...

Of course, Bush turned a disaster-in-the-making into a disaster-squared-and-then-some, and Obama is holding the same overall course with a few additions of his own...

We're on the Titanic, people.

Romney is not going to save us from going down, and neither is Obama. Both of them are "more of the same" which has gotten us into this mess in the first place.

My $0.02 only...

Good luck to us all.

[jacko]

and what programs would you cut?

How about massive spending cuts actually be thought out and implemented before any talk of a tax increase of any kind takes place. You simply cannot continue to spend like drunken sailors (both parties) and then just come back and raise taxes. That is a great part of what has gotten us all in this mess we are in.

The federal government is a complete disaster and there are way too many departments and programs that could be cut right now. Yes, I realize in doing so there will be many who lose their jobs but we as a country are more or less bankrupt. Nobody wants to do the dirty work because they are more concerned with getting re-elected.

[jacko]

How come very little German jobs were shifted to China?

While I'm NO fan of Bush's presidency, let's not forget the following:

a) It was the Clinton/Gingrich tandem that made it possible for industries to start shifting the jobs abroad in quantities that were previously unimaginable. Take it from someone who was laid-off from a Fortune 10 company in early 2000, along with thousands of others, when our jobs were shipped out to China. Shapes of things to come, and then some....

b) It was Clinton who turned a blind eye to Al-Qaeda, effectively allowing them to stage 9/11 the way they had. Bush's reaction to that event...well, that's a whole another matter...

c) Had Clinton gotten his way there would've been U.S. ground troops fighting in the Balkans...long before Afghanistan and Iraq...but someone thankfully managed to talk some sense into him...

So while things may have looked good when Clinton was leaving the office, the disasters were around the corner...nicely lined up...

Of course, Bush turned a disaster-in-the-making into a disaster-squared-and-then-some, and Obama is holding the same overall course with a few additions of his own...

We're on the Titanic, people.

Romney is not going to save us from going down, and neither is Obama. Both of them are "more of the same" which has gotten us into this mess in the first place.

My $0.02 only...

Good luck to us all.

[shark66]

How come very little German jobs were shifted to China?

Well, my wild guess would include the fact of not having Clinton for President and Gingrich for Speaker likely helped that turn of events...

Good luck to us all.

[msm859]

How come very little German jobs were shifted to China?

Because they have strong unions in Germany.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08/07/unions-boost-economy-in-germany/

[jacko]

You get the prize....-) The middle class in good ol USA is the culprit for pissing away their work rights, turning on each other and voting based on guns/religion. A German Apple Retail store is the first in the chain to vote in a union due to lousy working conditions. Would never happen here.

Because they have strong unions in Germany.
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2011/08...my-in-germany/

[filed]

Sorry old chap, cannot agree here - Clinton left office with an economy in good shape - except for the tech bubble which the Fed Reserve (and he) encouraged - budget was in great shape, etc. In comes Bush - massive tax cuts for the wealthy, two wars on the national credit card, and ultra low interest rates to compensate for the hemorrhaging of jobs and the falling average income of folks...wars cannot be fought without taxes. However, let us think what would have happened if on our paychecks there would have been a line item surtax for the wars...

Sorry old chap, cannot agree here with your recollection. Clinton left office with an economy headed into recession, and this was compounded dramatically by the events of 9/11. The events of 9/11 definitely resulted in an increase in government spending, though many would say that the creation of Homeland Security and the TSA - neither of which existed prior, was somewhat necessary. By the way, I am no apologist for the Bush Administration, but it was not just Bush who "put two wars on the national credit card", congress is on record, and voted to support the military actions.

[helpmeout]

Sorry old chap, cannot agree here with your recollection. Clinton left office with an economy headed into recession, and this was compounded dramatically by the events of 9/11. The events of 9/11 definitely resulted in an increase in government spending, though many would say that the creation of Homeland Security and the TSA - neither of which existed prior, was somewhat necessary. By the way, I am no apologist for the Bush Administration, but it was not just Bush who "put two wars on the national credit card", congress is on record, and voted to support the military actions.

Based on the lies that Bush told them.

And to be blunt, even if they had voted no, the cowboy who got up in front of the UN and stated "You are either with us or against us" and made it clear that anyone who didn't agree with him was unpatriotic would have still invaded Iraq. It is just Bush who put two wars on the national credit card. Bush was the Commander in Chief. He was the only one who could have ordered the troops to go anywhere. Bush owns those wars. While Afghaniston was necessary, we did need to go after Bin Laden, he completely bungled it. Iraq was an invasion that should not have happened.

Yes, the events of 9/11 resulted in increased spending. It was the sheer stupidity of Bush that he didn't offset the increase in spending with a tax increase. Or better yet, reversing his tax cuts. Which would have been easy for him to do given that he got them through without Congress voting on them. Hence the reason why they were only for 10 years.

[filed]

... tax cuts. Which would have been easy for him to do given that he got them through without Congress voting on them. Hence the reason why they were only for 10 years.

Among the numerous errors you make, I will point out that though I am not sure where you were educated in civics, the President does not set tax policy, and changes to the income tax LAWS are the purview of Congress.

[msm859]

You get the prize....-) The middle class in good ol USA is the culprit for pissing away their work rights, turning on each other and voting based on guns/religion. A German Apple Retail store is the first in the chain to vote in a union due to lousy working conditions. Would never happen here.

Too true. As the south races to the bottom trying to make all the states right to work states so that the unions get destroyed. They are too stupid to realize they are like frogs in a pot not realizing they are turning up the heat and going to boil to death. Just like they don't realize the damage WalMart is doing to this country. Over 90% of their employees make below poverty level income and the billions of profit go to a handful of people in Arkansas. Likewise with Apple one of the most profitable companies in the world they squeeze every dime out of their employees so that many are only part time to avoid paying benefits and pay nominal wages while paying 100's of millions to their new CEO.

[jacko]

Look at South Carolina. You have a ditzy gov who goes on worth less trade missions to Europe begging for jobs, yet she does not want to fix the plumbing in her state. Plumbing = a schitty quality workforce. I am better off remaining poor then loading up on additional student loan debt. I currently have 30k in deferment at a very low interest rate with the dept of edu. If I were to add to my edu debt, the interest rate would be at around 8%. I don't see the reward to risk in my favor to gain new skills at my age when their is no work place protections.

Too true. As the south races to the bottom trying to make all the states right to work states so that the unions get destroyed. They are too stupid to realize they are like frogs in a pot not realizing they are turning up the heat and going to boil to death. Just like they don't realize the damage WalMart is doing to this country. Over 90% of their employees make below poverty level income and the billions of profit go to a handful of people in Arkansas. Likewise with Apple one of the most profitable companies in the world they squeeze every dime out of their employees so that many are only part time to avoid paying benefits and pay nominal wages while paying 100's of millions to their new CEO.

[helpmeout]

Among the numerous errors you make, I will point out that though I am not sure where you were educated in civics, the President does not set tax policy, and changes to the income tax LAWS are the purview of Congress.

Yes, they are. Unless the President passes it via budget reconciliation. Like Bush did. When it is passed this way, it expires in 10 years.

Had Congress ACTUALLY VOTED on it, there would have been none of the hoopla about Bush's tax cuts expiring as they wouldn't have expired.

Maybe you should question where you were educated in civics.

[filed]

With respect, it is still congress that uses reconciliation. I apologize if I was insulting with the comment about where you were educated in civics, that was uncalled for, and something I should not have said.